Why CM spaces out units between battles in ops (not due to no mans land setting)

[Lt Bull]

I had to rephrase my question as I saw it could be misinterpreted.

I am refereing to how CM does not allow closely placed units to remain exactly where they are on the map from one operation battle to the next. This is not refering to the effect that the no mans land setting has and how it may spread opposing units apart by changing the front line. I am refering to how ithe game tries to keep a minimum spacing between your own freindly units between battles. It happens even if the no mans land seeting is set to zero.

eg. At the end of an operation battle, you might have a platoon of infantry and AT gun huddled in foxholes in a patch of woods. All seems OK. You enter the next battle setup screen and you see that the front line has not changed. However, not all those foxholed units you had neatly huddled in that patch of woods are neatly huddled in foxholes anymore. All the foxholes stay where they were, and so do some of the units that were in them. But some of the units now find themselves repositioned slightly several meters away NOT in their original locations, NOT in foxholes and in many cases NOT even in the same terrain.

In between battles, it seems the game "checks" all units on the map and repositions them individually if neccessary (ever so slightly if need be) to ensure some minimum spacing between unis is maintained.

I've never worked out WHY this (must) be the case. Is it actual game design intent (if so, is the thinking behind it?), was it a case of "we can't seem to stop that from happening", or was it a case of "we totatlly missed that/forgot to fix it"?

It's just that I have been playing several operations lately where we decided to employ self imposed "play em where they lay" /continuous rules and it is annoying to find (friendly) units that eneded one battle close to each other, slighlty spaced out the next battle. It is a problem even when you play with zero no mans land settings and you find that some of your troops now are "isolated" within a patch behiond enemy lines. In this case, if the game has spaced them out as I have described (eg. potentially putting a previously well hidden ATG that ended last battle in woods now in open ground) the player can not nudge it back to where it was. Left in that new spot (just meters from where it originally was), the unit may find iteself in exposed open terrian and basically be dead meat once the battle commences.

The only option is to move it out of that isolated setup zone completely and reposition it somewhere within your own lines but this is not what you want to do.

I just can't see a reason why that must be the case.

Lt Bull

[ May 06, 2007, 12:42 AM: Message edited by: Lt Bull ]

[sross]

I think it has to do with the no man's land parameters set in the editor.

[PFMM]

It seems inspired by the Advanced Squad Leader historical module rules.

I think the no man's land parameter is a compromise to reflect the terrain (lower for denser terrain, higher for open terrain) and the amount of infiltration over time into an area of troops from both sides as they take a breather between bouts (again lower for long times and higher for short times).

In my opinion, I like it. I tend to play mostly operations when I can, and like the continuouty and bluff that they present. I'd advise you to take full advantage of the ability to move your troops around.

[Lt Bull]

Originally posted by sross:

I think it has to do with the no man's land parameters set in the editor.

OK I think I many need to be clearer. After re-reading my post I realise that it could easily be misinterpretted as you have. I will edit it to be more clearer.

[Baron von Beergut]

I agree with you Lt Bull - I've had the same frustration and don't know the answer. I would think if at the start of the next battle they would allow you to adjust your unit setup by allowing you to reposition up to say 20 meters in a setup phase that that would counteract that quirk of the program.

[tankibanki]

Originally posted by Baron von Beergut:

I agree with you Lt Bull - I've had the same frustration and don't know the answer. I would think if at the start of the next battle they would allow you to adjust your unit setup by allowing you to reposition up to say 20 meters in a setup phase that that would counteract that quirk of the program.

Did you ever notice that you can move units closer to each other during a battle than in setup? That might be the reason for the repositioning. Your suggestion would probably not fix the problem completely since the positions of your units at the end of the previous battle are invalid if the setup "rules" are applied, i.e. you couldn't move your units back where they belong even if you had a limited setup functionality.

[Lt Bull]

Originally posted by tankibanki:

Did you ever notice that you can move units closer to each other during a battle than in setup? That might be the reason for the repositioning. Your suggestion would probably not fix the problem completely since the positions of your units at the end of the previous battle are invalid if the setup "rules" are applied, i.e. you couldn't move your units back where they belong even if you had a limited setup functionality.

Yes I have noticed that. But it doesn't seem related to even the limitations on spacing limits between adjacent units at setup.

I have just gone and done a test. At setup stage there is a minimum distance the game allows you to place units adjacent to each other. If you bunch them up at setup stage as close as it lets you, and leave them there and go to the next battle, in next battle setup, you will find that the game WILL move them further apart.

So the spacing limitations at setup dont seem to have anything to do with WHY the game apparently NEEDS to spread out the units even further BETWEEN battles.

[ May 06, 2007, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: Lt Bull ]

[PFMM]

Aha. That problem. Yes it annoys the hell out of my opponents and I. I've always assumed it was a bug or some wacky limitation of the engine, and over the years have learned to live with it by treating as part of the game (either leave them there or move them).

If it is design, I can only think that the designers are saying this area is too crowded move them elsewhere. Apart from that I try not to think about it too much and space my units out to minimise it at the end of a particular battle.

Hope for CMC to fix it? I dunno.