More Gamey/Bug CMAK Aspects?

[sand digger]

This has happened several times now, fire orders given to Brit/Com platoon mortars are not carried out for no apparent reason. All the indicators are that the order is capable of being carried out but I suspect that the opponent is using 'Hide' to block or break the order.

In real life once a fixed enemy position is visually located then you can mortar it any time you want, irrespective of whether the enemy is hiding ie no longer active or visible. But CMAK appears not to work that way, or if it does then I haven't found the key.

The other aspect concerns infantry attacking fixed enemy positions across open ground. In CMAK this apparently is considered suicide and you get mown down, in one recent game my three attacking sections suffered 22 casualties in a few seconds while following real world practice.

The fact of the matter is that Brit/Com infantry was trained to assault with bayonets where necessary after manouvering as close to the enemy as possible. And when properly carried out it was very effective. We are not talking about WW1 style exposed advances of hundreds of yards but short sharp assaults over a few open meters with support.

Contempory accounts of such assaults indicates that usually the attacker's losses suffered were not excessive at all and that a entrenched enemy was at a significant disadvantage as the distance closed, particularly once they came within effective grenade and SMG range. Invariably against Germans surrenders quickly followed, but not always, so that the end result of the assault measured in numbers usually favoured the attacker.

But such text book assaults in CMAK are a recipe for disaster for the attackers. Why?

[ June 09, 2004, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: sand digger ]

[GJK]

Area target around where you spotted the enemy, not the enemy themselves. Once they go out of sight, the order to "target the enemy" becomes void - there is no enemy seen. Give an order to "area fire at this location" and it will stand unless LOS to that location is later blocked. YMMV

[Sergei]

Originally posted by sand digger:

But such text book assaults in CMAK are a recipe for disaster for the attackers. Why?

Get a 3:1 superiority and pin down the Jerry before advancing, and you'll succeed.

[Kobal2]

Item #1 : if you target your mortars directly at an ennemy unit in LOS, the mortar will cease firing whenever LOS is broken (as if, say, that inf squad ducked down to the ground while in heavy cover). It's possible the mortar won't fire even if the contact reappears - on the whole mortar teams seem to wait for instructions before they shoot, instead of firing at will. Understandable and probably the best approach, considering their short ammo supply.

To keep on firing at an ennemy even if he's hidden you've got to set the mortars to area fire, that is : target the ground on which the unit stands rather than the unit itself. Since mortar fire is imprecise even in the best of circumstances, it won't make much of a difference in accuracy, and besides mortar is AoE anyway.

Item #2 : the keyword of your whole speech is "with support". That means, before you rush those positions with baïonets, rifle butts, grenades and SMGs, you've got to first put enough fire on them to silence them. Charging even 10 meters out in the open when fired upon by auto weapons *will* get you killed. Try it IRL, get killed, see if I'm wrong . Point is : before you make that charge, be sure to have every unit in that position pinned down, ducking for cover, morale shaken, the works. Many options there : arty strike, mortar fire, HMGs, AC/tank support, howitzers, ATGs, infantry...Doesn't matter how you do it, the point is : every time the ennemy raises it's head out of the grass, it must be shot at.

Might take some time mind you, from a couple direct mortar shells in a foxhole to three full turns firing on a 3:1 basis for entrenched infantry. Also, infantry in buildings (or even worse, rubble) is very hard to suppress efficiently and, even more important, durably.

Then you can assault (probably better to pop a bit of smoke around too, not to be pinned down in the open yourself by fire from another position further back) with good chances of success, usually routing/slaughtering/capturing the pinned units in a matter of seconds if they were already in bad shape moralewise. Best situation is of course when they take off running the instant you enter the trench/crater/foxhole/building, ripe for an open ground massacre.

[Kobal2]

Oh, by the way, Area Targeting is also really usefull with HMGs : even though visually it seems you're only firing on a single point, the MG firepower will be applied in a 25-30m circle around that point, sending everybody to the ground. That is, until the MG jams, and it *will*. Bet you a dollar it jams when you need it the most, to boot.

[Pak40]

Originally posted by sand digger:

In real life once a fixed enemy position is visually located then you can mortar it any time you want, irrespective of whether the enemy is hiding ie no longer active or visible. But CMAK appears not to work that way, or if it does then I haven't found the key.

And how pissed will you be if your mortor teams fire all of their ammo at a target that they can no longer see because the target has retreated? They will waste their ammo on an unoccupied spot. This is a sound reason why the developers designed the AI to stop firing at unseen targets. This is also the reason why you, the player, can override the AI's decision by ordering an AREA FIRE if you think there is enemy still at the location.

[flamingknives]

Originally posted by Kobal2:

Oh, by the way, Area Targeting is also really usefull with HMGs : even though visually it seems you're only firing on a single point, the MG firepower will be applied in a 25-30m circle around that point, sending everybody to the ground. That is, until the MG jams, and it *will*. Bet you a dollar it jams when you need it the most, to boot.

That's why I like to use nice, historical MG platoons.

Add on 2 3" mortars and that's a very effective support section.

[sand digger]

Thanks for your useful responses.

Perhaps the problem boils down to that minute when the shoot is hitting the fan and your units have only already redundant orders to hand. The TacAI rarely does anything constructive in such a situation, usually it invokes extreme 'defensive' measures such as crawling away even though several other responses would be more appropriate eg run away, hide, return fire.

But I'm firmly of the view that CMAK models close range small arms firepower excessively in effect. It is almost arcade game like in this respect.