Sokal Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 Just whatever happened in Crete, Africa or any Part of Italy? I suppose this is just as well since the nightmare of the relatively well-equiped Italian Army being roughly handled by the Greeks might be demoralizing and the German blitzkrieg through the Balkans and Greece might be disturbing. :cool: And we won't be invading Lemnos or Lesbos or Rhodes or Corfu...officially anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Rhodes was already controlled by Italy before the war along with other Dodecanese islands. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Someone more knowledgeable than I am could estimate how well the Anglo-German encounters in Greece can be portrayed using the stuff that was present in North Africa in 1941. At least approximations are possible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Never mind. I should read more carefully... Michael [ November 09, 2003, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: Michael Emrys ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Originally posted by Sergei: Someone more knowledgeable than I am could estimate how well the Anglo-German encounters in Greece can be portrayed using the stuff that was present in North Africa in 1941. At least approximations are possible. Sounds reasonable to me. For the most part, the CW forces were engaged in "retrograde advances" and sluffing off whatever equipment they couldn't carry, but the New Zealanders put up a pretty good fight around Thermopoly IIRC. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: but the New Zealanders put up a pretty good fight around Thermopoly IIRC. Michael Must have been a brewery in the vicinity... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Incidentally useful information ... W-Force was, of course, the British contribution to the defence of Greece. Regards JonS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Will Greek troops be included? I thought there were a large number of Greek troops on Crete, did they take any part in the fighting? If they are included surely we should have no trouble doing Greek battles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Originally posted by Speedy: Will Greek troops be included? I thought there were a large number of Greek troops on Crete, did they take any part in the fighting? If they are included surely we should have no trouble doing Greek battles. My understanding is that the Greek forces on Crete were local militia without any heavy weapons. Even if they are included in the game, they won't be suitable for portraying the main actions on the mainland. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 On May 20, 1941 there were about 42,600 defenders in Crete, 28,164 CW and 14,000 Greeks. Only 10,000 were fully equipped. About 15,000 CW troops were evacuated. Most of those Greek defenders were fresh recruits from the mainland with very little ammunition (and different caliber from the CW), while the Cretan men were sent earlier to the mainland or their rifles taken away. Understandably the fighting morale of the mainlanders was not very high since Athens had been captured (I think Cretans are still somewhat bitter to the government). [ November 10, 2003, 02:21 AM: Message edited by: Sergei ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozi_digger Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Originally posted by Sokal: I suppose this is just as well since the nightmare of the relatively well-equiped Italian Army being roughly handled by the Greeks might be demoralizing and the German blitzkrieg through the Balkans and Greece might be disturbing. :cool: I for one would find it interesting to play Greeks vs. Eyeties. Sort of 'what if' the CW hadn't intervened and then neither had Germany... Not that I'm asking for it in the game, but it might be interesting in a cum-CMBB-minor-powers sort of way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maj. Battaglia Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Certainly, Commonwealth actions on mainland Greece can be simulated. But AFAIK, there won't be Greek troops. I have a hunch BFdotC said "Crete" instead of "Greece" so there would be no confusion over the non-inclusion of Greeks. JonS and Sergei, thanks for the useful info. Sergei, it is my understanding also that the forces on Crete also included Greek regulars, but I did not have numbers at my fingertips. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 There were a couple of Greek regiments (read: battalions) folded into the NZ Div on Crete. They melted fairly promptly when the paras started dropping in their deployment areas. See Doroshs' CMAK website and the NZ Div section. [ November 10, 2003, 08:22 PM: Message edited by: JonS ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiaros Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 JonS your british arrogance will be confronted soon as the Olympian god will meet the mortals for one more time to set things right 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Oops - let me re-phrase: "melted slightly quicker than the better equipped and organised CW forces" Regards JonS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Some of the Greeks melted quickly, some of them stood and fought like lions. None of them had anything like adequatre equipment or training or leadership. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 "There were a couple of Greek regiments (read: battalions) folded into the NZ Div on Crete. They melted fairly promptly when the paras started dropping in their deployment areas." This is typical of the standard ill informed view of what happened on Crete, based off of some dubiously written commonwealth accounts, which often downplay the role of Allies in any action. In fact several of the Greek Regiments fought quite well, gave the Germans as much if not more of a hard time than the ANZACs did during the battle, and through the stiffness of their resistance faciliated the Commonwealth withdrawl by fighting the rear guard action. The 1st Regiment essentially wiped out the Murbe Detachment during the initial invasion, put up stiff resistance for KAstelli, then converted to fierce guerilla resistance in the town that prevented the landing of German units in particular tanks for another two days, with considerable loss to themselves which proved inestimable in helping Freyberg's force during its withdrawl south when it had no AT weapons left. Even units which supposedly "melted away" such as the 2d Greek Regiment (Ill equipped and ill armed) did not surrender but immediately converted to fighting in parties and as Guerillas units and did good work in protecting the withdrawl and afterwards. 3rd Regiment was at Herakliaon, no further info available. 4th and 5th Regiments operated in defense of the Rethymno sector, counterattacking early on with the AUssies mopped up and bottled up most of the 2d para regt. 6th Regiment with only 3 rounds per man at the start of the battle (and most of that ammo had not even been distributed) was described as both ill armed and ill led by Kippenberger, who together with it's sister Regt the 8th, he thought it would be "murder to leave such troops in a position in a position on their own". The 6th Regt with almost no ammo, scattered on the day of the drop. About 200 men of this regt later organized by Forrester continued resistance. With the 8th Regt was a different story. The 8th Greek Regiment (Armed with left-over WW1 Ausro-Hungarian weapons) was one of the outstanding performing unit in the campaign on the Allied side. In addition to stiff resistance in it's sector on the day of the drop, it's sharp fight in the days after the fall of Maleme held up Galatas against the Gerbirsjager and prevented the bagging of the entire allied force in the Canaea Suda Bay sector. 7th Regiment was at Herakliaon, no further info available. And of course when the Commonwelath forces high tailed it off the island, the Greeks were left behind. Many of them simply carried on as guerillas. There's another thread somewhere around here either in this board (CMAK) or in tips and tactics with all my Crete sources. I'm too lazy to report them here. Los p.s. BTW I'm not Greek... [ November 10, 2003, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: Los ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Great info Los, thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiaros Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 As soon as I find some extra time I will refer to my sources,which have plenty informantion,not only about figures and numbers, but about the very same battle and narrations of those who were present,as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Originally posted by fiaros: As soon as I find some extra time I will refer to my sources,which have plenty informantion,not only about figures and numbers, but about the very same battle and narrations of those who were present,as well. And we, the ones who will hear await your clear voice, revealing all parting the clouds of time, and making much of warriours lost and abandoned, they yet triumphed not every victory, results in fame. Damn! This is some good posting! JonS, you're a bigtime Grog poster, but you choked the poodle untimely here! Greeks and self-proclaimed Not Greeks have called you to question here! Interesting thread. I know very little about this aspect of the war. But I know way good posting when I see it! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Hmmm. Seanachai enjoying himself. That's gotta be a bad sign... Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Originally posted by Seanachai: JonS, ... you choked the poodle untimely here! Greeks and self-proclaimed Not Greeks have called you to question here!I know I feel so Cabron-esqe Sorry guys - no offence intended, 'Twas just meant to be a quick summary w.r.t. CMAK, not an all-in history of the Greek Army. Regards JonS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiaros Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 JonS sorry but it just turned to be that way. Seanachai you should recognize this then. Michael Emrys don't worry, I can hadle it myself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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