Modding

[track]

Since the Combat Mission I series is going to be

obsolete, would it be impossible to fully open it to modders? This would enable such unseen theatres

of war as Norway, Low Countries, Poland and France

to be fully introduced to the CM-series. Wiht correct 3d-models etc.

[Kingfish]

Do you mean allow third parties to create 3-D models?

[track]

Yes. 3D-models are one of the major obstacles. So far many mods just tweak maps, sounds and textures.

[Kingfish]

So how would you address the problem of 3 dozen different modders submitting 3 dozen different versions of the Char B1?

[track]

No, the mod should be a co-ordinated effort.

[dog of war]

track i am with you

but who has the final say about which mod gets included ?.unless someone from bfc volunteers to take charge

[track]

Well think how the mods are now beign made.

Community simply discards any non-working/

low quality mods.

Been waiting for a looooong time for an early

war WWII mod/game, but nothing has happened for years. I'm kinda sure that unless you start acting

yourself nothing is ever going to happen.

Sure there is Fading Hopes, but models are just

re-textured late war models. This simply will not do.

Sure it would be essential if some one from Battle Front would give support. In fact without it it's a no-go situation.

I bet it would breath a some life to the stagnant CM1 series.

[Kingfish]

Originally posted by track:

Well think how the mods are now beign made.

Community simply discards any non-working/

low quality mods.

But what is a non-working/low quality mod, and who decides?

Say I want to create a 3-D model of the French R35, and my reference data shows the upper hull is angled 35 degrees from vertical. I submit this and everyone is happy. Along comes Joe and he submits the same tank only his has a 30 degree slope. Both mods are excellent quality and both work inside the game engine, yet because of the difference in armor slope each treats the opposing enemy's pen factors differently. How do you address this?

Don't get me wrong, I too would love to see some early war stuff, especially Norway, but unless you have a centralized control of the 3-D models you are opening up Pandora's box.

[track]

I think you are now confusingly talking about two separate things. The actual 3D-model that is moving around in the game and the data which is used to determine penetration, damage etc.

To my point of view at this point it is irrevelant who makes which model as long as they work ok and the mod works as a whole. They should be credited for their work ofcourse!

Some French tank data already exists in CM1 and CM2. So work does not begin from scratch. If I remember correctly they use all same 3D-model though with different statistics.

[track]

...meaning that dor example S-35 and H-39 look exactly alike, even that they have totally different statistics.

(Just a moment ago checked this out).

[Kingfish]

Originally posted by track:

I think you are now confusingly talking about two separate things. The actual 3D-model that is moving around in the game and the data which is used to determine penetration, damage etc.

But the 3-D model does not exist in a vacuum. Each one has built-in data, such as armor protection and sillouette, which gives it its unique characteristics. That data is influenced to a certain degree by how the model is designed. The two are certainly distinct aspects of the game, but they are tied to each other.

To my point of view at this point it is irrevelant who makes which model as long as they work ok and the mod works as a whole.

It is irrelevant if you are thinking of only playing against the AI, but not so as soon as you try to play against someone else. If that person's 3-D models differs in anyway the game is hosed, since it requires the exact same data for it to calculate the outcome from each engagement.

Something similar to this came up when the designers were putting the finishing touches on the TCP/IP feature for CMBO. IIRC, they discovered a problem that was related to the differences in each players computer. Because no two PC (or Mac) are alike each calculated each engagement differently, and thus produced different movies. One guy would watch his opponent's tank get popped, while his opponent watched his own tank survive the turn.

The same thing could happen if you have 5-6 different version of the same tank, each slightly different in some aspect, floating around the CM community. Imagine the chaos of trying to sqaure away with your pbem opponent what mods you have for each vehicle, who designed it, and how recent is the version.

[track]

What I meant is that each mod should be a cohesive

and planned project. Perhaps BattleFront would like to give an "approved" stamp to the mods that pass the test.

I don't want to end up creating a chaos with www full of Combat Mission cheat mods.

[GreenAsJade]

It's entirely an academic discusison, since BTS have consistently said they're not doing this because they don't have the resources.

Since CMx2 is getting later, that only means their resources are even more stretched, which makes it even more unlikely...

[track]

It's entirely an academic discusison, since BTS have consistently said they're not doing this because they don't have the resources.

Academic??? I'm ready to put some serious work into this project.

Checked it out: CMAK has French infantry and support weapons, plus some artillery pieces. CMBB has many of the tanks.

Since most of the data already exists, it would not demand a huge workload to get this thing together. Could use most of the energy to scenario design.

[Wicky]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

[QB] Not possible without a lot of work on our part. The way models were created, imported, and finalized was extremely messy and prone to failure. After a few hundred we kinda got the hang of it Uhm, and this is why we've done things very differently in the CMx2 engine. Still a lot of work, but it is the sort of work that doesn't involve hours of looking for a rogue polygon that makes a turret rotate without its gun or drive with its wheels going in the wrong direction or float above the terrain or any number of other brutal problems we had. Ack... just remembering this gives me indigestion

You'll never get any vehicles to swap between CMBB and CMAK

If you choose a project you'll be limited to what is available in that paticular game as others have done . i.e Spanish CIvil War mod (CMBB), Operation Sealion (CMAK) fiddling with bmp skins but not with hardcoded polygon models and data.