Kingfish Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I'm hoping someone could shed some light on the reasons for the lack of a standard organization for these formations. For instance, why was 12th SS Pz equipped with Jagdpanzers in its Panzerjager abtielung when all the others had StuGs? On the Zetterling website the two PzGr regiments of 2nd SS Pz are equipped with a 15th Kompanie, which are labeled "KrSch". What formation is this? Likewise, 10th SS Pz's 15th Kompanie is recon, while in 1st SS Pz it is a Pioneer. 9th SS Pz skips over the 15th Kompanie and goes straight to 16th. Why? All the SS formations, including 17th SS PzGr, have a battery of 37mm Flak guns (in addition to 3 88mm batteries) in its Flak battalion, except 1st SS Pz which was an additional battery of 37mm. Again, why? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted April 10, 2007 Author Share Posted April 10, 2007 I'm hoping someone could shed some light on the reasons for the lack of a standard organization for these formations. For instance, why was 12th SS Pz equipped with Jagdpanzers in its Panzerjager abtielung when all the others had StuGs? On the Zetterling website the two PzGr regiments of 2nd SS Pz are equipped with a 15th Kompanie, which are labeled "KrSch". What formation is this? Likewise, 10th SS Pz's 15th Kompanie is recon, while in 1st SS Pz it is a Pioneer. 9th SS Pz skips over the 15th Kompanie and goes straight to 16th. Why? All the SS formations, including 17th SS PzGr, have a battery of 37mm Flak guns (in addition to 3 88mm batteries) in its Flak battalion, except 1st SS Pz which was an additional battery of 37mm. Again, why? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 KrSch should be Kradschützen, i.e. motorcycle-borne reconnaissance infantry. All the best Andreas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 KrSch should be Kradschützen, i.e. motorcycle-borne reconnaissance infantry. All the best Andreas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Surely you remember this thread? KrSch sounds a little like it might be Kradschutzen, or motorcycle dudes. From what I can tell, none of the 10-or-so Pz Divs the Germans sent to Normandy had the same orgn. Why? Who knows. Well, Dandelion probably does, but certainly not I. I generally put it down to a matter of what equipment was available at the time the division was forming, and how good the senior commanders were at hoarding and thieving to get extra kit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Surely you remember this thread? KrSch sounds a little like it might be Kradschutzen, or motorcycle dudes. From what I can tell, none of the 10-or-so Pz Divs the Germans sent to Normandy had the same orgn. Why? Who knows. Well, Dandelion probably does, but certainly not I. I generally put it down to a matter of what equipment was available at the time the division was forming, and how good the senior commanders were at hoarding and thieving to get extra kit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitchen frizzy Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Few Jagdpanthers were built. Not everyone could have them. Most were sent to the Eastern front. At the time of its creation and outfitting, 12th SS was in Belgium, well to the rear and close to the factories at the time Jagdpanther production commenced. The other Panzer divisions rested and refitted nearer to the front. Those that refitted in France had no chance of getting Jagdpanthers, since none were sent to the Western Front as replacements. Or something. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitchen frizzy Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Few Jagdpanthers were built. Not everyone could have them. Most were sent to the Eastern front. At the time of its creation and outfitting, 12th SS was in Belgium, well to the rear and close to the factories at the time Jagdpanther production commenced. The other Panzer divisions rested and refitted nearer to the front. Those that refitted in France had no chance of getting Jagdpanthers, since none were sent to the Western Front as replacements. Or something. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted April 10, 2007 Author Share Posted April 10, 2007 Few Jagdpanthers were built. Not everyone could have them. Most were sent to the Eastern front.I think you are confusing Jagdpanthers with Jagdpanzers. With regards to the former, only one independent battalion was sent to Normandy, the 654th schwere Panzerjager Abteilung. At the time of its creation and outfitting, 12th SS was in Belgium, well to the rear and close to the factories at the time Jagdpanther production commenced.The 12th SS arrived in Normandy on June 7th, but didn't receive their first Jagdpanzers until a month and a half later, so their time in Belgium didn't give them any advantages. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted April 10, 2007 Author Share Posted April 10, 2007 Few Jagdpanthers were built. Not everyone could have them. Most were sent to the Eastern front.I think you are confusing Jagdpanthers with Jagdpanzers. With regards to the former, only one independent battalion was sent to Normandy, the 654th schwere Panzerjager Abteilung. At the time of its creation and outfitting, 12th SS was in Belgium, well to the rear and close to the factories at the time Jagdpanther production commenced.The 12th SS arrived in Normandy on June 7th, but didn't receive their first Jagdpanzers until a month and a half later, so their time in Belgium didn't give them any advantages. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 While formation and inital training was in Belgium, by D-Day 12th SS was W of Paris. 1st SS was in Belgium on D-Day, and they stayed there (bar a smallish KG who went early, and a few odds and ends - incl the PzJagdAbt IIRC - who went later) until approx the end of June. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 While formation and inital training was in Belgium, by D-Day 12th SS was W of Paris. 1st SS was in Belgium on D-Day, and they stayed there (bar a smallish KG who went early, and a few odds and ends - incl the PzJagdAbt IIRC - who went later) until approx the end of June. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitchen frizzy Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Originally posted by Kingfish: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Few Jagdpanthers were built. Not everyone could have them. Most were sent to the Eastern front.I think you are confusing Jagdpanthers with Jagdpanzers. With regards to the former, only one independent battalion was sent to Normandy, the 654th schwere Panzerjager Abteilung. At the time of its creation and outfitting, 12th SS was in Belgium, well to the rear and close to the factories at the time Jagdpanther production commenced.The 12th SS arrived in Normandy on June 7th, but didn't receive their first Jagdpanzers until a month and a half later, so their time in Belgium didn't give them any advantages. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitchen frizzy Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Originally posted by Kingfish: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Few Jagdpanthers were built. Not everyone could have them. Most were sent to the Eastern front.I think you are confusing Jagdpanthers with Jagdpanzers. With regards to the former, only one independent battalion was sent to Normandy, the 654th schwere Panzerjager Abteilung. At the time of its creation and outfitting, 12th SS was in Belgium, well to the rear and close to the factories at the time Jagdpanther production commenced.The 12th SS arrived in Normandy on June 7th, but didn't receive their first Jagdpanzers until a month and a half later, so their time in Belgium didn't give them any advantages. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 BTW, is there a collection of arrival dates, of when exactly German units arrived in Normandy? Most divisions sent detachments in advance and the whole thing is very fuzzy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 BTW, is there a collection of arrival dates, of when exactly German units arrived in Normandy? Most divisions sent detachments in advance and the whole thing is very fuzzy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Red, Zetterlings website, and especially the book, has that info in excruciating detail. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Red, Zetterlings website, and especially the book, has that info in excruciating detail. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 According to H. Meyer, 12th SS moved from Flanders to Normandy in early April. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 According to H. Meyer, 12th SS moved from Flanders to Normandy in early April. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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