Michael Emrys Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 IIRC, that box resting on the folded down portion of the front shield (to the left of the gun proper as we face it) is to contain the sights. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoofyStance Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 So that's what that box is for! My initial thought was, "Why'd they put a brick on the shield - a last-ditch close-defense weapons system?" What rank is the soldier on the far right of the photo, seated on the ground - an Obergefreiter? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 And what about the two young dudes in civies on the far left? I take it this is not a combat photo. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoofyStance Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: And what about the two young dudes in civies on the far left? I take it this is not a combat photo. Michael Not unless the "young dudes" were Volkssturm being shown how to use the door knocker, circa 1945. Talk about desperate measures (waiting for an uniform grog to point out details in the clothing that mark the picture as having been taken on May 15th, 1938 ... or some such date ...) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 I notice that the helmets all have the lugs on the side which I think is a pre/early war mark. The guy standing with the binocs is clearly wearing the boot with the early leather high top which I think was abandoned mid-war. They all are carrying gasmask cannisters, which tend not to show up much in late war photos. Plus they all just look too relaxed for it to be a combat photo. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoofyStance Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 Good observations, and I agree (though I didn't know that about the boots). Most likely a pre-war publicity photo. And any more relaxed, the guy on the far right would fall asleep 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 Well, the caption says (roughly translated): A 3,7 cm anti tank gun at a Reichswehr manoeuvre in the mid 30's. The three piece upper shield could be folded down in order to lower the over all height and make it easier to conceal. So, yes, correctly observed. M. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 Mister Andersen. Welcome back. We missed you. :cool: God how I have been waiting for an opportunity to drop that line. Michael, The helmets are model 1918 with 1933 modification chinstraps. Or could be Austrian M17's but I don't think so. M18 mods were in use by the Reichswehr. Replaced by a new model in 1935, yet another in 1940 and then another in 1942. The M18's were discarded in the standardisation process starting in 1935 and was not used during the war. The M35 was rather quickly phased out of service in the regular army during the first half of 1940, but was used by various police forces and such (and by Hungary, Spain, Finland etc - and were also used to cut Paratrooper helmets from). You will react when you see a M35 as well, it appears a bit too large for the head to most observers, who are generally used to the smaller 1940 and onward models. But the M35 had no real Frankenstein-looking vents sticking out (well, very small ones). That standing guy seems to have a cuff title. If so, and if he isn't wearing a non-regulation cuff title, and if the photo is pre-1938 (and it is), we can pinpoint his unit exactly. Cheerio Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 ...and that "doorknocker" nickname puzzles me. I've seen that statement in quite a few English sources. But in German sources I've only ever seen "Panzeranklopfgerät" as derogative nickname for the Pak 35/36. The usual nick seems to have been the typical "Dreikommasieben" (three-comma-seven). (like the 88 was called Achtacht (eight-eight, not eightyeight)). Anyone have a "origin" on the doorknocker term? Cheerio Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Originally posted by Dandelion: Michael, The helmets are model 1918 with 1933 modification chinstraps. Or could be Austrian M17's but I don't think so. M18 mods were in use by the Reichswehr. Replaced by a new model in 1935, yet another in 1940 and then another in 1942. The M18's were discarded in the standardisation process starting in 1935 and was not used during the war. The M35 was rather quickly phased out of service in the regular army during the first half of 1940, but was used by various police forces and such (and by Hungary, Spain, Finland etc - and were also used to cut Paratrooper helmets from). You will react when you see a M35 as well, it appears a bit too large for the head to most observers, who are generally used to the smaller 1940 and onward models. But the M35 had no real Frankenstein-looking vents sticking out (well, very small ones).Thank you, Dandy. I feel so much more...informed now. Seriously. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Originally posted by Dandelion: ...and that "doorknocker" nickname puzzles me. I've seen that statement in quite a few English sources. But in German sources I've only ever seen "Panzeranklopfgerät" as derogative nickname for the Pak 35/36.The only explanation I've come across is that the German troops began calling it that after it failed against the more heavily armored Allied tanks, and especially the T-34. But if as you say the term does not appear in any German sources, that casts grave doubt on the entire thesis. BTW, what does 'Panzeranklopfgerät' translate to? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoofyStance Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 BTW, what does 'Panzeranklopfgerät' translate to? Michael Literally, "Tank knocking equipment." Seriously, that's what Google said 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Then that's not so different from 'doorknocker', is it? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Nope, it isn't all that different. In German the word "knock" means the knocking-on-door variant of knock, there's not the "knocking out" or being "knocked" meanings. So Panzeranklopfgerät means a device used for knocking on tanks in a harmless manner. I was wondering where the door came from. No big thing of course. Think I've figured it out now. I spoke with Mr Andersen earlier today and he claims to have seen the nickname of "Heeres-anklopfgerät", meaning of course "army knocking device". From here the step is very short to Army Doorknocker. I can understand the adding of the door in the English translation so as to make clear to Anglosaxons that it is the harmless variant of knock intended. A knocking device might otherwise sound like something very effective. Puzzle solved then I suppose. Always feel a certain sadness when questions meet their answers. Cheerio Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Originally posted by Dandelion: I was wondering where the door came from. No big thing of course. Think I've figured it out now. I spoke with Mr Andersen earlier today and he claims to have seen the nickname of "Heeres-anklopfgerät", meaning of course "army knocking device". From here the step is very short to Army Doorknocker. I can understand the adding of the door in the English translation so as to make clear to Anglosaxons that it is the harmless variant of knock intended. A knocking device might otherwise sound like something very effective. Puzzle solved then I suppose.Also, 'doorknocker' is an existing name in English for a device, namely two pieces of metal (usually brass) hinged so that one may strike against the other and attached to the outside of a door. This produces a louder sound inside than merely striking the wood with one's knuckles for the same amount of effort expended. Thus, as the familiar name for a familiar object, it would have been natural to seize on it as a handy and adequate translation for the original German. There would also be an element of wry humor present. Always feel a certain sadness when questions meet their answers.Post-interogatory tristesse? Only a European would think of that. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 One very odd thing I noticed in Dandelion's photo was the 37mm gun's got a wavy camou pattern! I'd bet anything it's the same wavy grey/green camou seen on Pz I's well before the war. Instead of 1944 we're probably looking at 1934. By the way, the Russian 45mm guns have the same style gun shield (a direct copy, actually) and I have seen one Russian combat photo of their 45mm gun with the upper shield sections folded forward just like Dandelion's photo. [ April 24, 2004, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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