WHY those support teams are so sloooooooow? (snails team are not for Fr, thanks ;) )

[Darkmath]

Since CMBB, support teams, even the slow class, are able to run.

OK, not only they run slowly, but they get weary after running 15 metres.

OK, the mortar or the MG itself is not that heavier. It is the gun + ammunitons which makes the unit slower.

BUT (yeah I like to isolate that way the conjunction. That makes the discourse more convincing )

From what i read on this forum, IRL, it seems to be the SOP to deploy the gun first, then comes the ammunition.In CMX1, the support crew men move

altogether, which makes the movement slowly.

Secondly, for heavy guns like the M2 .50 cal (gun weight:38kg tripod weight: 12kg), I read the crew exchange each other the gun equipment when someone got tired. It was said the M2 team can keep up with the rest of the platoon. This is not what I see in CM, where the MG screw up my assault every time

(also because the deployment of the MG ( up to 40 sec.) is, IMHO of course , unrealistically long ) (and almost because I suck too )

[JasonC]

Yes the movement rates of teams rated as "slow" is - slow.

Teams rated as medium are fine - on "move" they will keep up with the regular infantry. They don't have "advance" so they don't react well to being shot at. And they have set up time before firing back. Combined these mean they do not belong in any sort of assault - even the medium speed ones.

Instead, you steer them into position by sending fast squads over the route intended, and follow a minute behind those if and only if the route is clear. Once set up in cover, they support by fire to the limits of LOS.

The whole point of ranged weapons is they don't need to close. They walk their LOS limits over the enemy, not their bodies. If any enemy can be seen from their position, they are close enough and fire. If none can be, it is safe to move.

Now, the slow teams - heavier MGs and 81-2mm mortars, line FOs - aren't able to reposition even as fast as the medium teams. They move about half the rate. This means they can reposition basically once in a fight, and have to plan that move out well ahead of time. They are basically stationary, emplaced weapons on the CM fight time scale. They move up to establish LOS in attacks, that is all.

Germans sometimes have to be a bit more aggressive about repositioning their HMGs, because they are so strong and so essential to the German infantry way of fighting. Fortunately, they fit on the back of tanks (transport class 2).

The towed guns are also much slower than they were in real life. Much more so than the heavy weapons teams. They are pretty much forced to move only by vehicle, and even those only 1-2 repositionings per fight. Occasionally you can push a few infantry guns up to first LOS rather like mortars, over a covered route and taking twice or more as long to do it. Isn't realistic, but we live with it.

One of the biggest strengths of the US force in CMAK is that its main heavy weapons are all medium speed. The 30 cals are a bit wimpy compared to German HMGs, but using pairs can get around that. The 60mm mortar hits much stronger than 50mms do and moves much better than 81s.

[Darkmath]

Oh! Jason C post a reply .Thanks

The .30 cal 1919 is in the medium class because they carry less ammo than the german equivalent, the MG42.

For the same number of ammunition bearer, they have the same amount of burst, since there are a different number of bullets fired in each burst according to weapon's ROF, then there is half the MG42 ammuniton for the M1919.

[ August 22, 2006, 03:44 AM: Message edited by: Darkmath ]

[dieseltaylor]

One of the nice things about British battalions is the intrinsic carriers that mean the mortar and HMG can get places pretty darn quick. They should be cherished and not put into too much danger but they have their armour, small silhouette and smoke dispensers if needs must.

Of course later in the war you do not get the lame ATR carrier or the MMG carrier - a great shame that is not modelled with the demountable gun.

[Darkmath]

Yes,but it is the running distance on foot that bothers me ; i think it is unrealistically low.

They got weary after 10 metres.

What can you do with that?

It creates a lot of micromanagement if you want them to run over a longer distance by alternating move and run waypoints.

[GreenAsJade]

It's basically saying "this **** is too heavy to run with, forgetaboutit".

[Darkmath]

Originally posted by GreenAsJade:

It's basically saying "this **** is too heavy to run with, forgetaboutit".

On this board , I read an instance in which a mortar team "ran like hell" on 200 yards.

One of the guy was an excellent athlete, so it seems to be an exception.

IMO, in this instance, i think they were not carry a full load of ammo, which explain why they run on a such high distance.

The problem is not the speed of the team when they have a full load of ammo. But the problem occur during the battle, when the team have less and less ammunition to carry when using the weapon. There is a point where the weight of the carried ammunition is so low that the team could run.

Do you find, however, with full ammo load and "normal" soldier, realistic that a 81mm mortar could run only for 10 metres?

[TheBlackHand]

I always buy a couple of jeeps and maybe a HT or two to move my support elements up. Those vehicles are worth the price. Using them you can quickly set up a good base of fire for your assault. Just be sure to keep the vehicles safe! Otherwise, you're back to zero.