Rob Murray Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Pascal: What did you expect from a German company? I'd be a lot more upset with a company giving me lousy product support. Besides, who really cares about them calling Waffen SS " Waffen Grenadiers " as long as you've got a decent playable game ( which seems to be pretty much a hit & miss affair these days - seems like half the games have serious problems; ie: crashing to desktop, etc. ). I can live with my " Waffen Grenadiers " as long as I got a stable, playable game - which CMAK ( or as my version's called; Combat Mission 3 Afrika Korps ) seems to be. [ February 08, 2004, 11:16 PM: Message edited by: Rob Murray ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by Pascal DI FOLCO: Things won't certainly change if noone complains neither... And even if complaining doesn't make it change, tell me why I shouldn't complain about this ridiculous "political correctness" issue (because it ain't anything else). Maybe one day BFC will get a serious European publisher instead of CDV, let's dream ! Anyway the first goal of my post wasn't to complain but to find the mod to make the game historically accurate - as it is the BFC original game. And my apologies for not addressing the specific irritation. Obviously, your modding needs were not an issue, and someone will always show up to help with that. And certainly you may heap whatever abuse your heart desires on CDV, as I've no interest in their existence one way or the other. My satirical remarks were specifically aimed at what looked like another useless, pointless, and endless unloading of tripe and teeth gnashing aimed at the vagaries of German law, and the economics based unwillingness of a European (specifically German) software distributor to create one version of the game for Germany, and another for the rest of their distribution area. Along with this, of course, went a certain eye-rolling disdain for the chest beating displays of the Usual Suspects that routinely and rather inanely wave the various 'banners' they want to attach to the whole issue, be they 'Boy, do I hate that whole 'PC' thing', to 'It's all a matter of historical imperative...er...accuracy!' As regards CDV's annoying copy protection scheme goes: Extremely valid issue. Issues with CDV's customer service: Extremely valid issue. Mod-able absence of SS symbols and the decision to side-step any legal issues by not using the term 'Waffen SS': complete and utter non-issue. Climb off the Nazi hobby-horse and play the game. And for all the members of Britain's National Front who are incensed at having to put up with the strictures of German law in their computer game: You're right. And you are not alone, nor should you suffer alone. I demand that in all future incarnations of the game that we here in America also have to suffer, and that all references to the American Army units in the future have to make reference to the 'Vespucciland Army' instead. Also, that the Union Jack should appear in substitution for the stars on the Vespucciland flag. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by Mark Gallear: Despite the Terry Pratchett quote Mr Seanachai comes from Minneapolis ! However, even Americans seem to need German flag mods for some reason? What gives in the land of the free - Mr Seanachai? By God! Is Terry Pratchett an Englishman?! Dear Christ, my dear lad, my sincerest apologies! As you know, we here in the Colonies are not allowed to read the works of English authors except by express permission of the Crown! I abase myself in my contrition. Perhaps, Mr. Gallear, you would be...dare I ask? Oh, I must! Would you be so kind as to 'sponsor' me, so that I might read Mr. Pratchett's wonderful satires without fear of transgressing English law? I'd be ever so grateful. Please, sir, consider my heartfelt request! With your approval and support, I'd be legally entitled to re-read "Jingo", which would make me ever so happy! As for your almost bizarrely pointless reference to Americans needing flag mods, I've no clue as to 'what's going on in the land of the free'. Fill me in? I promise to listen for hours, with every indication of fascination, if only you'll do me the favour of helping smooth the way to my acceptance by English people. Do you know, deep inside, I've always thought that I had the heart of a true English gentleman! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Well I bought the CDV versions of both CMBB and CMAK (and CMBO for that matter) and I have to say that the waffengrenadier thing doesn't really bother me much, there are mods to change it anyway, and I can understand Seanachai's position on the seemingly never ending complaints about it. It's a topic that's been done over and over again. However, Seanachai is wrong when he says the complaints are pointless. It is precisely because of the amount of complaints that this topic generated at the release of CMBB that Europeans were given the option of purchasing CMAK directly from BFC instead of being forced to buy a CDV version, as had been the case for CMBB. I believe that BFC took a financial hit for not allowing CDV exclusivity in European sales. Which makes me ask....why has anybody who has a bee in their bonnet about this subject bought a CDV version when they could have ordered one directly from BFC? I also detect a hint of hypocracy with this subject too. I'm fairly sure that if we Europeans had an original Waffen-SS version of Combat mission, whilst Americans were forced to buy a Waffengrenadier version because of some Mexican law then the outcry would have turned this whole forum into little more than a rant about free speech and inalienable rights. I'm also extremely shocked to hear that Americans are allowed to read Terry Pratchett....just what is it that we pay MI5 for? [ February 09, 2004, 04:19 AM: Message edited by: Ant ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by Seanachai: Climb off the Nazi hobby-horse and play the game. What does a "Nazi hobby-horse" look like? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gallear Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by Seanachai: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mark Gallear: Despite the Terry Pratchett quote Mr Seanachai comes from Minneapolis ! However, even Americans seem to need German flag mods for some reason? What gives in the land of the free - Mr Seanachai? By God! Is Terry Pratchett an Englishman?! Dear Christ, my dear lad, my sincerest apologies! As you know, we here in the Colonies are not allowed to read the works of English authors except by express permission of the Crown! I abase myself in my contrition. Perhaps, Mr. Gallear, you would be...dare I ask? Oh, I must! Would you be so kind as to 'sponsor' me, so that I might read Mr. Pratchett's wonderful satires without fear of transgressing English law? I'd be ever so grateful. Please, sir, consider my heartfelt request! With your approval and support, I'd be legally entitled to re-read "Jingo", which would make me ever so happy! As for your almost bizarrely pointless reference to Americans needing flag mods, I've no clue as to 'what's going on in the land of the free'. Fill me in? I promise to listen for hours, with every indication of fascination, if only you'll do me the favour of helping smooth the way to my acceptance by English people. Do you know, deep inside, I've always thought that I had the heart of a true English gentleman! </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by Big Jim: And what is a 'waffengrenadier'- an armed grenadier? Presumably as opposed to the deadly unarmed grenadiers... [PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT] If you were a bit clued up on the history of the term, you would know that Waffengrenadier is the title given to (at least) some of the Eastern Waffen-SS formations. These were officially called 'No. Waffengrenadierdivision der SS (Country Nr.No)', e.g. 14. Waffengrenadier Division der SS (Galizische Nr. 1). So contrary to popular belief on these boards, this is not a made-up term with no historical root, but instead a historically correct term for some (quite a few actually) Waffen-SS formations. [END PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT] Now that I have been able to show all of you that I know more than all of you together, I will fully agree with Seanachai. He's such a likeable fellow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyBlademan Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Well then I want to complain.... about the lack of an Uber-cheese. D#@#it, if we can put a man on the moon we should be able create "nature's Uber penis enlarger". Now somebody complain about that! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridericus Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 some additional points to andreas. The divisions of SS were divided in original Waffen-SS-Divisions and Waffen-SS-Legions. The legion-units were called "Waffengrenadier", the other tayed the original Waffen-SS-Divisions. the men of Waffen-SS-Divisions were of germanic blood in Himmlers definition, the members of legions were from the whole world. because of this fact its very stupid to call all of them waffengrenadier in a way of censorship. its quit easier to call them "Hans Wurst" or such. its same as when you call apples Aepfel or pommes de terre. its just stupid and very senseless done. :mad: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by fridericus: because of this fact its very stupid to call all of them waffengrenadier in a way of censorship. its quit easier to call them "Hans Wurst" or such. its same as when you call apples Aepfel or pommes de terre.Wouldn't the same apply the other way round? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridericus Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 sure but most people with less history-knowledge know them all as "SS", beeing unable to see the many differences. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gallear Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 So it was Andreas who dreamed up the totally historic Waffen Grenadier thing then! Why mention it now when we are in Italy and I assume they are SS and not Waffen Grenadiers! Sorry not an expert on the SS being British! (I assume Andreas has friends in high places in America and has the BFC version of CMBB?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowotny Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by EZPickens: IMHO, this is utter nonsense. Why not outlaw the "red-star" associated with the rabies-ridden regime of Joseph Stalin? Or, for that matter, as the Confederate "stars and bars" is slowly hounded from view in the U.S., why not ban "old-glory" as well, as it is forever associated with Hiroshima and Nagasaki? If we fail to take these measures, the bans I mean, then all we have done is bestow upon the winning side virtues that are far more apparent than real. Germans aren't evil, anymore than Russians or Iraqis. But, governments are capable of ENORMOUS evil, including those of the victorious Allies in WW2, and the U.S., today. So, by God, if you are gonna ban one regime's symbols, then damnit, ban them all. Let's establish an international "CMx" committee and get on with the purge, the sooner the better. EZ Best post evar! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Originally posted by Mark Gallear: So it was Andreas who dreamed up the totally historic Waffen Grenadier thing then! Why mention it now when we are in Italy and I assume they are SS and not Waffen Grenadiers! Sorry not an expert on the SS being British! (I assume Andreas has friends in high places in America and has the BFC version of CMBB?) I had a Mac when CMBB came out, and I had nothing to do with the Waffengrenadier issue (since I did not know the little factoid then). I am not sure why you infer that I had. I have no friends in high places either, but I am certain I know quite a bit about the British Army in WW2, and I am German. Nationality is no excuse for lack of knowledge. Sincere disinterest is though, and who could blame you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Originally posted by Nowotny: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by EZPickens: IMHO, this is utter nonsense. Why not outlaw the "red-star" associated with the rabies-ridden regime of Joseph Stalin? Or, for that matter, as the Confederate "stars and bars" is slowly hounded from view in the U.S., why not ban "old-glory" as well, as it is forever associated with Hiroshima and Nagasaki? If we fail to take these measures, the bans I mean, then all we have done is bestow upon the winning side virtues that are far more apparent than real. Germans aren't evil, anymore than Russians or Iraqis. But, governments are capable of ENORMOUS evil, including those of the victorious Allies in WW2, and the U.S., today. So, by God, if you are gonna ban one regime's symbols, then damnit, ban them all. Let's establish an international "CMx" committee and get on with the purge, the sooner the better. EZ Best post evar! </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gallear Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Originally posted by Andreas: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mark Gallear: So it was Andreas who dreamed up the totally historic Waffen Grenadier thing then! Why mention it now when we are in Italy and I assume they are SS and not Waffen Grenadiers! Sorry not an expert on the SS being British! (I assume Andreas has friends in high places in America and has the BFC version of CMBB?) I had a Mac when CMBB came out, and I had nothing to do with the Waffengrenadier issue (since I did not know the little factoid then). I am not sure why you infer that I had. I have no friends in high places either, but I am certain I know quite a bit about the British Army in WW2, and I am German. Nationality is no excuse for lack of knowledge. Sincere disinterest is though, and who could blame you. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Originally posted by Mark Gallear: CDV do not sell mac versions of the CM series. Therefore we Europeans with Macs have always had the pleasure of purchasing directly from BFC and watching with bemused disinterest the 'censorship' quibbles. From the Internet (Google - factoid slang) "Dear Word Detective: Help! I thought I knew perfectly well what "factoid" means: a trivial or insignificant fact. But now I find that a lot of dictionaries consider that it means an unverified, untrue, or invented fact! I think all of this would be news to a lot of people. For example, various TV shows and newsmagazines often promote "factoids" about the subject of their program. I'm sure they have no idea that one meaning of "factoid" is a statement that isn't true. -- Melanie Nickel, via the internet." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZPickens Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Originally posted by Andreas: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Nowotny: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by EZPickens: IMHO, this is utter nonsense. Why not outlaw the "red-star" associated with the rabies-ridden regime of Joseph Stalin? Or, for that matter, as the Confederate "stars and bars" is slowly hounded from view in the U.S., why not ban "old-glory" as well, as it is forever associated with Hiroshima and Nagasaki? If we fail to take these measures, the bans I mean, then all we have done is bestow upon the winning side virtues that are far more apparent than real. Germans aren't evil, anymore than Russians or Iraqis. But, governments are capable of ENORMOUS evil, including those of the victorious Allies in WW2, and the U.S., today. So, by God, if you are gonna ban one regime's symbols, then damnit, ban them all. Let's establish an international "CMx" committee and get on with the purge, the sooner the better. EZ Best post evar! </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Originally posted by EZPickens: Ah, so Soviet swastikas are more suitable than those of the Nazis?Soviet Swastikas? Do tell me more! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Originally posted by EZPickens: Ah, so Soviet swastikas are more suitable than those of the Nazis? LOL, what utter hypocrisy. Your "groups" time will come my freind, and you will see the folly of YOUR "rubbish." EZ Hey, Andreas, I don't know anything about this one, but if he looks like he could work out as a Mortal Enemy, could I annoy him for you and take him over? I've simply been bereft since Cabron66 got banned, and Emrys hasn't been worth a ****e as a Mortal Enemy, especially lately as he's started sending me his poetry. Normally I wouldn't ask, but I figure what with your busy social life, and the fact that I have no life to speak of, you might not mind. I think I might be playing one of your CMBB creations right now, I'll have to check, but since it doesn't suck in an evil way, it's probably not one of the umpteen Rune scenarios I'm playing. Hope this finds you and all your hypocritical ilk well, next time you have a beer with Soddball, kick him in the fork for me, will you? XXOOXXOO -Seanachai 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Originally posted by Seanachai: .... and Emrys hasn't been worth a ****e as a Mortal Enemy, especially lately as he's started sending me his poetry. Has he been taking lessons from the Vogons? Regards Jim R. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Originally posted by Seanachai: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by EZPickens: Ah, so Soviet swastikas are more suitable than those of the Nazis? LOL, what utter hypocrisy. Your "groups" time will come my freind, and you will see the folly of YOUR "rubbish." EZ Hey, Andreas, I don't know anything about this one, but if he looks like he could work out as a Mortal Enemy, could I annoy him for you and take him over? I've simply been bereft since Cabron66 got banned, and Emrys hasn't been worth a ****e as a Mortal Enemy, especially lately as he's started sending me his poetry. Normally I wouldn't ask, but I figure what with your busy social life, and the fact that I have no life to speak of, you might not mind. I think I might be playing one of your CMBB creations right now, I'll have to check, but since it doesn't suck in an evil way, it's probably not one of the umpteen Rune scenarios I'm playing. Hope this finds you and all your hypocritical ilk well, next time you have a beer with Soddball, kick him in the fork for me, will you? XXOOXXOO -Seanachai </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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