Choice of Amno

[Lusitano]

I have been noticing that units armed with the 2pdr or the 6pdr often fire AP at infantry and AT gun units. In a couple of my games they even knocked out AT guns with AP. Should AI targeting of infantry and AT units with AP be taking place at all?

Luso

[gunnergoz]

I recall at least one story about Russian Matilda-equipped tankers cutting German infantrymen in half with well-aimed AT shot. Not conventional, but when that's all you have and the gunner's got a twitchy trigger finger...

Don't forget that 2pdr and 6pdr guns, especially on tanks, often did not have HE at all. IIRC the 6pdr got it later in the war, not sure if it ever reached the 2pdr.

Oddly enough, the 2pdr is almost exactly 40mm and Bofors made a superb HE round in that caliber. But then, knowing how stuffy the Brit tank/gun design and procurement people were, its not suprising that they'd field tanks with no HE "because their job is to kill other tanks" or similar dogmatic drivel.

[ March 01, 2004, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: gunnergoz ]

[Bone_Vulture]

Aren't those guns equipped with only AP rounds?

[Slappy]

AP rounds do have a small explosive charge. They're nowhere near as effective as HE, but they're better than nothing if you impact closely enough

[Rabidbvr]

Hello one and all

at first i had alook for some info with ref to small charge in ap rounds from what i can find this is not the case solid shot is as it says a solid lump of sharp steel... please forgive me if i am wrong

i have used this site rather a lot lots of info on guns and even the armor they got fitted to

happy hunting...

[Rabidbvr]

Hello one and all

with ref to my prev post

hope this helps a little

happy hunting

[MikeyD]

A lot (most) AP shells in WWII would have a burster charge in a cavity in the round's tail of varying size in order to increase behind-armor lethality after penetration. But a lot of Brit 2 pdr and 6 pdr was solid shot. Great for penetration but reduced behind-armor effect. Modern-day tungsten APFSDS rounds don't have a burster charge either. They rely on sheer kinetic energy.

In the game you may see 2 pdrs targeting infantry but you will only rarely seen significant casualties from the attack.

[YankeeDog]

Just to make sure everything's clear:

In general, armor piercing rounds come both with an HE "burster" and without. Technically, an AP round without a filler is called "AP shot." If it has a burster, it's call an "AP shell." For a given caliber and velocity, AP shot usually has better penetration ability owing to greater weight and projectile integrity. AP shells usually cause more damage if they do penetrate, though, as if it works properly (which was not always the case, especially for early war allied shell), the HE burster explodes the shell inside the AFV.

Now, to the issue at hand: AFAIK, the Brit 2pdr only had AP shot for most, if not all of the war. With only AP shot available to it, a 2pdr gun would basically be a very large single-shot rifle. Some circumstances might increase the damage of an AP shot round against soft targets, though. For example, if enemy infantry were holed up on a stone building, the AP shot might shatter sections of the stone walls as it passed through, causing secondary projectiles.

Against AT guns, using AP shot over the MG makes a degree of sense, especially if the gun crew is dug in and has the gun already facing the tank - most ATGs have a gun shield to deflect MG rounds. While the gun shield of an ATG is a pretty small target (especially if the gun is dug in), an AP shot hitting the shield, would almost certainly kill/wound a gun crewmember and/or damage the gun.

Against plain old infantry with small arms, firing AP shot makes less sense. The only reason I can think of is in the case of the aforementioned "frangible cover," but I don't think CM presently models this sort of thing.

Cheers,

YD

Cheers,

YD

[Rabidbvr]

Go on press me you know it makes sence

"i have used this site rather a lot lots of info on guns and even the armor they got fitted to"

happy hunting

[sand digger]

Going back to the original question, I have read accounts of 2pdr AT guns being used to target motorcycles at long range in 1941, and hitting them with severe results for the motorcycle. So there is no reason why a direct hit on say a gun could not be made knocking it out.