yacinator Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 I was thinking about purchasing THE GERMAN TANK PLATOON IN WWII from BFC. Is it any good? After reading any of the Nazfiger books did your CM game improve? Thats why I'm thinking about purchasing that book, to improve my tactics. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 Yac, I haven't read the book you ask about so take the following input for what it is. I own the Nafziger collection, i.e. the organisational charts for German armed forces. While a handy quick reference chart (this is how I use them), they are regrettably soaked with error and misunderstandings. Most of these are so obvious that I spot them without doublecheck, others more subtle. The errors I find take little research to clear out, and quite a few seem to arise from trivial language problems. Other errors, such as those found in introductory texts, I cannot explain. Quite frankly, at times, he seems to be fabricating or making assumption without basis just to fill gaps, rather than completing his research to the same effect. The impression I get is thus that research made is very superficial, if extensive, and that he'll make something up rather than go find a better source or admit he does not know, which makes me not trust him as a serious researcher. The collection (not the BFC book) is heavily overpriced. Probably because there are no competing titles available in English. Having written all that - I haven't even looked into his book on German tank platoons It might be top quality. Anyway it's not a lot of money so even if it is equally sloppy work it's no big loss. The actual German manuals weren't all that thick you know (well, the technical ones were but not the tactical). Principles were a few, easily grasped basic rules - but of course not as easily implemented correctly, that was the training and experience bit. Do you read German? Cheerio Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yacinator Posted December 13, 2004 Author Share Posted December 13, 2004 Hi Dandelion, Ok so you're saying that the books have a lot of errors in them and that the Nazfiger guy is making up stuff. But did your CM game improve after reading them? I'm not that much intrested in historical accuracy, just learning tactics. I don't speak German. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Yac, the books D is referring to are completely different. I'm familiar with those, and they're ... frustrating. However, this one - The German Tank Pn (TGPT) - seems to be merely a reprint of a German manual with no Nafziger-original-content which, to be honest, you'd have to be a complete fricking moron to cock up. So assume he isn't and hasn't. Looking at the information available for that book, you might find that German Panzer Tactics (GPT) is of more interest to you. That title covers lessons-learned from the whole war and all fronts, not just Poland and France 39/40. Readers Health Warning: I haven't read TGTP, only what I've read about it on the BFC books pages. I have read GPT though. The - or any other - book may improve your play, although what it's possibly more likely to do is give you a better idea of how things were done in real time instead. And, paradoxically, that might actuially make your play worse, since you'll be less likely to select gamily optimised forces or exploit some of the gribbles in the game engine. But it should make your play more satisfying. With time to contemplate, and to practice, you should be able to figure out what the lessons in any book actually mean in real situations, and more importantly how to apply them. Tactics is like chess - easy to pick up the basic moves, but damn near impossible to master. No single book can make you a Zen CM Master Regards JonS P.S. if you want more info on GPT drop me an email. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Yac, if you are looking for a book to improve your CMBB/CMAK tactics, the first book you should read, if you have not done so, is the "CMBB strategy guide". It helped me a lot to improve my tactics. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Yac, Yes I see your point. I agree with Jon completely; too strong a bond to IRL will handicap you in the game. Compare the present CMBB forum thread with the guy who set up by-the-book firelanes to seal off streets. Correspondingly, I have faced gamers with not the first clue - nor desire to have any clue - about anything on WWII, who still fight very successfully in CM. Cheerio Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yacinator Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 Well, I guess I don't need that book. Maybe I'll try the strategy guide instead. Can you recommend any other books? P.S. Dandelion, sometime ago you said that you would work on a training scenario pack. Did you make any training scenarios yet? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer76 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 You dont need any books, you need to play vs good players that dont mind you giving help and hints. Also, there is more info in AARs and the Tactics section than in any book. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Yac, The strategy guide is very good since it explains the strength and weaknesses of each type of units and how to best employ them individually and collectively. It deals with the whole concept of fire/maneuver teams, how to use terrain effectively, using covering/suppressing fire, setting up a kill zone, etc., etc. It has helped me a lot in formulating defense/attack plans, although my current PBEM opponents might disagree . Other than that, the only way to really improve your game is to play against better opponents, they will force you to raise the level of your game. Regarding book reccomendations, I am currently reading "Panzertruppen" vol. 1 and 2 and "Tank combat in North Africa" by Thomas Jentz, which are very good if you want to learn how tanks were employed tactically in WWII. However, that knowledge is not directly applicable to CMAK/CMBB. [ December 15, 2004, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: JC_Hare ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Yac, I am still working on them. I was interrupted by my system upgrade, causing a 2 month episode of having no functional PC. System works fine now and work was resumed as of November. The series has proven more difficult to produce than I had anticipated. I have now enlisted another member of the board to help me out. Cheers Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yacinator Posted December 16, 2004 Author Share Posted December 16, 2004 Thanks for all the advice. Aside from MZO, do you know of any other places to read AARs? Nice to know that you are still working on that scenario pack D. Thought you forgot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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