Private Bluebottle Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 A quick question. How many Vickers in a Machine Gun Regiment? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogface Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 a quick search on google gets me this quote During WWII the Vickers was considered a vital part of the army's order of battle. Five former infantry regiments were converted to provide machine gun battalions. The Manchester Regiment (five battalions), the Royal Northumberland Fusiliers (five battalions), the Middlesex Regiment (six battalions), Princess Louise's Kensington Regiment (two battalions), and the Cheshire Regiment (five battalions) provided dedicated machine gun battalions. Each infantry division would receive one machine gun battalion as divisional support. Each of these machine gun battalions had 48 Vickers guns, as well as a compliment of 4.2-inch mortars. from Northwest Historical Association 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 The MG battalions were divided into three companies, one per brigade in the division, with a 4.2 inch mortar company. The companies were three platoons (I suppose one per battalion in the brigade, though they would often operate two battalions up, one back). A platoon would, given the 48 figure above, have 4 guns. 4 x 3 x 4 = 48 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogface Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 lol I was gonna mention Grog Dorosh should be around shortly, But didnt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 Originally posted by Dogface: lol I was gonna mention Grog Dorosh should be around shortly, But didnt. I'm glad you were here first cause I pulled that out of my ass based on your figure of 48. Bouchery doesn't mention MG battalions, based on a cursory examination... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: The MG battalions were divided into three companies, one per brigade in the division, with a 4.2 inch mortar company. The companies were three platoons (I suppose one per battalion in the brigade, though they would often operate two battalions up, one back). A platoon would, given the 48 figure above, have 4 guns. 4 x 3 x 4 = 48 Whoa! Three companies times three platoons each times four equals 36. Could it be that the companies had four platoons each? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: The MG battalions were divided into three companies, one per brigade in the division, with a 4.2 inch mortar company. The companies were three platoons (I suppose one per battalion in the brigade, though they would often operate two battalions up, one back). A platoon would, given the 48 figure above, have 4 guns. 4 x 3 x 4 = 48 Whoa! Three companies times three platoons each times four equals 36. Could it be that the companies had four platoons each? Michael </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 no, 3 x 3 x 4 = 36. Early war (before the 4.2-in mtrs) it was 4 coys x 3 pns x 4 guns = 48. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 Originally posted by Private Bluebottle: A quick question. How many Vickers in a Machine Gun Regiment? Unless this is a trick question ... ? The units in divs were bns, not regts. E.g., 2nd Bn, the Middlesex Regt was the MG Bn from 3rd British Inf Div, and they had 36 Vickers during the campign in 44-45. How many Vickers in the regt - as a whole - would of course be dependant on how many bns there were in the regt. Each of the MG regts had a variable no. of bns. [ April 16, 2005, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: JonS ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Bouchery doesn't mention MG battalionsYes he does, and the indep MG coys (in the armd divs) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 Originally posted by JonS: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Bouchery doesn't mention MG battalionsYes he does, and the indep MG coys (in the armd divs) </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 Organograms on page 41, you cross-dressing beaver-licker. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 They make beaver liquor? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 yeah, but it's expensive. You only get 50ml per beaver, so about one beer can per family of beavers, including all the cute little fluffy baby ones. Those evil Canukians are heartless, evil bastards in their relentless pursuit of beaver-lickers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 Originally posted by JonS: ...you cross-dressing beaver-licker. CORRECTION: In reference to Dorosh that should be wannabe beaver-licker. That is all. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 Well spotted. No date, no source (WASPs weren't on inventory in Normandy, so the organogram appears to be later than that). Nonetheless, you DID see it. My question now - what weapon and personal equipment would a Company Sergeant Major carry in early 1945? Rifle with standard rifleman's kit, rifle with the cartridge carriers for non-infantry, or pistol and binoculars? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breakthrough Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: [Q My question now - what weapon and personal equipment would a Company Sergeant Major carry in early 1945? Rifle with standard rifleman's kit, rifle with the cartridge carriers for non-infantry, or pistol and binoculars? [/QB]A sten SMG 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Originally posted by Breakthrough: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: [Q My question now - what weapon and personal equipment would a Company Sergeant Major carry in early 1945? Rifle with standard rifleman's kit, rifle with the cartridge carriers for non-infantry, or pistol and binoculars? A sten SMG [/QB]</font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Oddly enough, that was my guess too. I tried matching Coy HQ weapons (as listed in Bouchery) against Coy HQ appointments (from various pdfs, that we've discussed before), but that led nowhere since there was a bad mis-match in numbers (14 pers, but 16 IWs, a Bren, a PIAT, and a 2-in. mtr). There is, however, apparently two pistols and one Sten at Coy HQ. It seems to me reasonable that the OC and the 2ic would carry the pistols, and the CSM the sten, particularly given his role. Apart from the CQ, the other ten pers at Coy HQ were all cpls or ptes, most likely carrying SMLEs. Where the Bren, PIAT, and 2-in. mttr fit in is anyones guess. Mine is that the Bren was issued to 'someone', and the PIAT and mtr to no-one, and only pulled out of storage on an as-needed basis. Just a guess though. I tried looking up VC citations to see if that would help, but the only relevant one is Hollis' D-Day heroics, and I couldn't find any mention of a weapon except for the un-primed grenade. Jon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinetree Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 If it's any help,Hastings in Overlord mentions Hollis firing a sten-gun as he attacked a pillbox.He also unhelpfully mentions that Hollis was firing a bren from the landing ship as they were going in, . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 The Commonwealth didn't have any real MGs. Just the Vickers and the Bren... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Stop channelling, you, and get back to fighting crime in the UK. Oh, and send me a feckin turn. No barf on this one though. So: no channelling, fight crime, send turns, no barf. Got it? Good. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Private Bluebottle Posted April 18, 2005 Author Share Posted April 18, 2005 Originally posted by JonS: Oddly enough, that was my guess too. I tried matching Coy HQ weapons (as listed in Bouchery) against Coy HQ appointments (from various pdfs, that we've discussed before), but that led nowhere since there was a bad mis-match in numbers (14 pers, but 16 IWs, a Bren, a PIAT, and a 2-in. mtr). There is, however, apparently two pistols and one Sten at Coy HQ. It seems to me reasonable that the OC and the 2ic would carry the pistols, and the CSM the sten, particularly given his role. Apart from the CQ, the other ten pers at Coy HQ were all cpls or ptes, most likely carrying SMLEs. Where the Bren, PIAT, and 2-in. mttr fit in is anyones guess. Mine is that the Bren was issued to 'someone', and the PIAT and mtr to no-one, and only pulled out of storage on an as-needed basis. Just a guess though. I tried looking up VC citations to see if that would help, but the only relevant one is Hollis' D-Day heroics, and I couldn't find any mention of a weapon except for the un-primed grenade. Jon I suspect that certain ORs were made to resemble pack animals and carried multiple weapons, using the appropriate one at the appropriate time, until they either ran out of ammunition or the situation changed and they thereforce changed to their alternative weapon, if that makes sense! I also suspect, nay know that by 1945 what the Establishment for a given unit may hae stated didn't necessarily resemble what the reality of what they were equipped with. By 1945, all Offs and SNCOs more than likely carried SMGs of one kind or t'other at the Company level. Afterall, being armed solely with a pistol marked you as someone important and therefore a target for snipers while a pistol's firepower is not much greater when you shoot it, as against when you throw it. What annoys me at the moment in our battle is I have a Bren gunner and a Company HQ in the same building. The Bren gunner has shuffled off his mortal coil, curtesy of your superior firepower and the Company HQ simply ignore the Bren gun sitting beside them. This needs fixin' or summit! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 You know, I have Charlie Martin's book - he was CSM in the Queen's Own Rifles, and I do believe he had a Sten as well.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breakthrough Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: You know, I have Charlie Martin's book - he was CSM in the Queen's Own Rifles, and I do believe he had a Sten as well.... So Im right. Admit it...... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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