Help with Satchel Charges vs. Armour - are my chaps blind?

[ramagel]

My chaps had this Stug in LOS for a whole turn (I had 'targetted' them to it the turn before seeing that it would move into LOS/LOF). They sat and watched it for a while and then let it reverse to just beyond throwing range, at which time it lobbed 2 HE shells in their general direction. (It later got flamed, serve it bloody right).

How SHOULD I have dealt with this beast?

Oh, I have asked about this elsewhere, but there it's the nature of the grass mod that's exciting interest!

[ November 22, 2006, 09:18 AM: Message edited by: ramagel ]

[jBrereton]

Ermm well it's the TACAI's choice on the matter that really decides whether they use their satchels or not.

Seeing as it's a veteran team, maybe you should have kept them hidden until it got closer, or have a cover arc set up for it before they targetted it.

It's a bit hard to tell, tbh.

[birdstrike]

Yeah, TacAI decides that. Nothing wrong, really. I'd say pure bad luck.

Could have tried splitting the squad, attacking from different sides, but with only 6 men left in the squad, that was perhaps no longer possible, anyway.

And the grass mod IS interesting...

[ramagel]

The cover arc idea is recommended elsewhere too, I think, but my issue with that is that, say the Stug whizzes past, my chaps will just sit there taking incoming fire without retaliating until I remove the arc next turn (if I remember! Tbh that's the real reasons I dislike cover-arcs!). I'll try it next time (or even see of my oppo will let me replay that turn with different combinations after we've done).

Thanks for the input: oh, and the grass mod is a bit naff, partly 'cos it's down sampled to make the file smaller.

[jBrereton]

The sample's not that big in size, is it?

Plus if you simply 'hide' them, you can give the order the next turn (seeing as they're Veterans, they won't leap up in worry when a THT goes past) and remove all of the cover arc sillyness.

[z-warfare]

I've been playing around with things like PTRDs and satchel charges and the like (versus Ferdinands, for ****s and giggles) lately and i would say that sometimes, a squad in what is to all appearances a perfect position to lob a satchel charge just... doesn't. Then after standing there they inevitably get walloped by the vehicle about 50 seconds later. I would agree that it comes to plain bad luck. I guess it makes up for the other four-fifths of instances when a 20-odd point engineer squad takes out a 300+ point AFV.

Also i will advise that a force of 60 PTRD teams can button, but apparently not actually destroy a big cat.

[ November 23, 2006, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: z-warfare ]

[ramagel]

PTRD?

[ramagel]

Elsewhere, it was suggested to remove the vehicle (Ctrl-V (?) I forget right now. My memory, bah!) and 'area target' just underneath where it will be. I had read that, but I've read so much it just wasn't on near-line retrieval media ....

[dieseltaylor]

PTRD = Russian ATrifle

[ActionMan]

I managed to get a section of Brit paras behind a Jagdpanther. They threw 2 satchel charges from a distance of about 20m. The second one immobilised it, so that a Firefly could get round to the flank and take it out.

I was very impressed with the infantry / armour co-operation, though I had hoped the satchel charges would do the job on their own.

[JasonC]

29m 180 degree covered arc. SOP for demo charges.

[David Chapuis]

pioneers are the best Tank hunters that the russians have, so you definitely have the right idea.

Am I the only one amazed by the different amount of time it takes to throw a satchel charge between green pioneers and crack/elite pioneers. Greens can take almost an entire minute to throw the first satchel, whereas elite units will throw it in the first 10 seconds. But these are vets, so that doesnt matter.

I actually wonder if it is because the tank is too close. They might be scared of hurting each other. I would test it, but I am too lazy.

and you cannot set an armor cover arc (ctl-v) with pioneers - but that shouldnt have mattered one way or the other.

[jwatts]

I'm going to veer slightly off topic here, though still on the main idea of pioneers/engineers. Often times I try to use my engineers satchels on mines, as that seems to be a big part of what they're for. However, it often takes 4 satchel charges from two squads to do the job! Am I wasting valuable forces for an unecessary job? To illustrate my point, I was recently playing Castelforte, a large Free French assault on the Gustav Line in Italy (great one by the way, ya'll should check it out), and had a couple of platoons of engineers, which I attempted to use to clear some roadways of mines. Needless to say, I used up both platoons on two mine fields! Does anyone agree that mine clearance by engineers is simply modelled wrong? I think that you should place the squad near the mines, and depending on experience should count down till mines are cleared, much in the same way set up times work.

[JasonC]

Differences in times to place DCs appear to reflect some sort of hidden "PAATC". For the Advanced Squad Leader impaired, that means pre armor attack task check. When they pass it they try.

As for clearing minefields, you don't want to actually target the field "area fire - use explosives". That will indeed throw charges at the field, but isn't the clearing mechanism. Just position the squad on the next tile over from the mines, go stationary, and wait. If unsuppressed, they will throw a DC on their own after a minute or so, and it will clear the field. Trying to get them to throw them faster with an explicit fire order is "attacking the minefield with HE", rather than clearing a lane.

[jwatts]

Ah. No wonder it never worked. Next time I'll definitely try.