ActionMan Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 I have been reading the thread on armoured cars and scouting with interest. I was wondering if the use of MMG carriers would come up. These appear in several CMBO scenarios (possibly other CMs too). I have wondered about the best way to use them. Are they usefull for scouting or as mobile machine gun nests? Do they have another better use? I would be glad to hear what you more experienced players think of these. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Lead Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Hey ActionMan, Again I would define precisely what you mean by scouting. There are infantry support weapons that (as a secondary role) are a cheap way of uncovering enemy AT defenses. They should never be "out front" unless you have an all armor force and a big open map. The MMGs are OK, but the Humber III is much better for this purpose. The MMG has an open top and is much more vulnerable as a result. It also has 12mm of armor instead of 15mm. This makes it more vulnerable to HMGs, Light Flak, and ATRs. The MMG has the same ammo level as the Humber III, IIRC. However, the Humber III fires 2 MGs at a time and one is a Besa HMG. I like this better even if you do run out of ammo faster. MMGs might have better mobility. I am not sure, but I seem to remember being very impressed by the speed of these things. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jBrereton Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 They're quite handy for carrying around AT guns. Don't really use them for much else. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoat Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 They are transport class 0, therefore, they can't tow anything. They also can't carry anything, and being as vulnerable as they are makes them practically worthless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jBrereton Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Originally posted by stoat: They are transport class 0, therefore, they can't tow anything. They also can't carry anything, and being as vulnerable as they are makes them practically worthless. They have Transport 6... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdstrike Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Before JasonC comes here and kicks our a$$es again for promoting the use of vehicles as scouts , I'd just say I mostly agree with Nemesis. They are indeed quite fast off road - much more so than ACs, for they are tracked vehicles. I don't really see them as scouts though (do they even have binoculars?). I don't say you could not use them in this way, but personally I prefer the Dingo for its thicker frontal armor, and it's not open-topped (if you can cope with the lousy weapon, that is). T8 anyone? And as we learned in the other thread, this form of scouting won't do you any more good than to detect tanks in the open or it may confirm your human player is an idjit for shooting at you with his 88. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdstrike Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Originally posted by jBrereton: They have Transport 6... That's the unarmed carriers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoat Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Originally posted by jBrereton: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by stoat: They are transport class 0, therefore, they can't tow anything. They also can't carry anything, and being as vulnerable as they are makes them practically worthless. They have Transport 6... </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Lead Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Originally posted by stoat: They are transport class 0, therefore, they can't tow anything. They also can't carry anything, and being as vulnerable as they are makes them practically worthless. Agree that I would not buy these in a QB but sometimes you have to use them in a scenario or get them when you buy a large formation. If you have to have them.....best to know how to use them. I would also say that NO unit in CM that is worthless. The scenario designers did a great job pricing the units. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionMan Posted November 21, 2006 Author Share Posted November 21, 2006 My point in raising this topic was not really to discuss the use of MMG carriers for scouting, as scouting is being ably discussed in the other thread. The real point is how best to use the carriers. For example, are they useful as mobile machine gun nests? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdstrike Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Yes they are. In general MGs are cumbersome weapons to drag around over long distances, MG carriers can be a useful alternative. Especially since they are available from early on in the war. Nothing much to say about tactics you wouldn't already know, I guess: keep enough distance from enemy infantry so they do not lob grenades into you carrier and keep in mind they can be killed by AT rifles, light guns and mortars. MGs shouldn't pose a big threat and it's armor makes it tougher than US halftracks, for that matter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Beginna Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I use them as a line backer against infantry break-throughs just 200m behind my 1 line. On the attack the best way to use them is at night or at bad visibilty just keep them 100 m behind your infantry screen and if they spot something just plot a straight order of "move to contact" on the firing defender. These unit then will usually flee. Panzerschrecks will be killed by the advancing infantry. If you need faster recon result - save a tank, and use recon by death. On the real recon duty I like them, because the have tracks and can travel cross-country. I like to use them together with infantry carriers (which carry lMGs or ATR - something with binos) as a recce group. This works reasonably well on large maps whereas on smaller maps it usally doesnt, because the is not enough place to manouver. Some human players can be distracted by feint attacts of such a group - the A.I. will open up with its big guns as every one knows, but might also use its arty. Sometime I overran arty spotters with a group like that. After all, as always - the use of MMGs and carriers for recon is depending a lot on the situation (map, time space, daytime, weather). Amored recon is a nice option to have, I used sometimes. Up for a PBEM someone? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jBrereton Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Originally posted by birdstrike: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jBrereton: They have Transport 6... That's the unarmed carriers. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyEnglish Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Originally posted by jBrereton: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by birdstrike: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jBrereton: They have Transport 6... That's the unarmed carriers. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 There are five types of carrier in CMAK: 1) Universal Carrier. Unarmed, transport capacity sufficient to tow 6 pdrs and lift 3" mortars. 2) Bren gun carrier. Armed, surprisingly, with a Bren gun. Has modest ammo (40). Can carry a team but not heavy weaponry. 3) MMG carrier. Mounts a Vickers MMG in place of a Bren gun. Better range, firepower and more ammo (150). No transport capacity 4) WASP. Flamethrower carrier. The FT is mounted in place of the Bren, meaning that it cannot fire when hull-down. No transport capacity 5) ATR carrier. A Boyes ATR in place of the Bren, can carry a team but not heavy weaponry. Personally, I prefer to use MMG carriers to support the infantry from long range, firing through keyholes and relocating fairly regularly. Other types (not the Wasp) get used for shuttling specialists (PIATs, Engineers, heavy weapons) about. Being armour-protected (IIRC) they're resistant to long range MG fire that can really spoil movement of these guys. The CMBB carrier, although visually similar, is very much slower than the ubiquitous British weapons carrier. Technically, the universal carrier should be able to carry both an ATR and a Bren, progressing to Brens, PIATs and 2" mortars later in the war. For towing 6pdrs, Lloyd carriers should be used (unarmed, and can carry more men.) WASPs ought to be able to flame to the flank whilst moving. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdstrike Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Um, yeah. Wanted to say that about the carrier variants myself, but since flamingknives already did that, I concur. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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