elevation and guns

[coe]

I have two tanks facing eachother - one at the highest possible level, one at the lowest possible level - essentially if the ground were level they'd be like nose to nose (so whatever that is for a cliff). Could the tanks hit eachother in CMBB, CMBO, CMAK?

Conan

[Sergei]

Yes if there is a clear LOS. However, if they're right next to a cliff, that is unlikely. Limitations in gun depression/elevation is not modelled.

[DaveR]

Actually in the scene you described. The lower tank would be able to hit the higher tank, but unless the higher tank was opened topped there would be a very good chance that it could not depress it's gun enough to hit the lower one. It's one aspect of tank gunnery that all games I have played seem to overlook, that just about every tank designed has always suffered from a very limited ability to depress the gun below the horizontal.

[Sergei]

DaveR, are you now talking about reality or game or what? :confused:

[Slappy]

Reality: Should not be able to hit.

Game: Will be able to hit.

[DaveR]

Originally posted by Sergei:

DaveR, are you now talking about reality or game or what? :confused:

Sorry. I should have read what I wrote to make sure it makes sence before I sent it<g>

In reality tanks suffer from limited ability to depress the main gun below the horizontal, and in games that tends to be overlooked.

In real life this is one of the things a tank crew had to take into accout when seeking a hull down position on the reverse slop of a hill. If it's too steep, you just can't bring the main gun to bare.

[mrcoffee]

Steel Beasts does model gun depression in the german, russian, and american tanks.

[junk2drive]

this one is pointing down i think

[YankeeDog]

IRL, some tanks have better main gun depression ability than others. The tank in that picture is a Stuart, which has pretty good main gun depression, in no small part due to the fact that it's 37mm main armament is fairly small and doesn't have a huge recoil throw. As such, it doesn't need large amounts of headspace inside the turret to depress.

Other tank models do not have this depression ability. IIRC, the IS- series has particularly poor depression ability due to the shape of the turret and the large 122mm main armament, which requires a considerable recoil distance.

Modeling the 'dead zone' created by max. depression is actually fairly complex, but probably would have been within the current CM engine's ability as I think the game already tracks most of the necessary variables. You not only need to know the max depression of the armament, you also need to know the angle of the hull relative to the horizon, and a reasonably close approximation of the the trajectory of the shell in flight - at some distance downrange, gravity will create all the 'depression' you need to hit a target.

As such, it's mostly an issue for closer-ranged tank battles in areas with substantial relief to the terrain, like the example mentioned.

Cheers,

YD

Cheers,

YD