didactylos Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Has anyone managed to succeed as the Russkies? I find this maddening as I look at what has to be done :mad: and it seems, on the surface, to be straightforward. Every time I have tried it I got wiped! Spoiler::::: I reckon I have to taregt the artillery and rockets at the start, I have used smoke (doesn't stay long) or fire on and around the crossroads - doesn't seem to do much. Dropping the shells where the enemy tanks are hiding doesn't seem to work either. Going hull down on the first ridge versus the Tigers gives them a shooting gallery! Moving across to the road then using dead ground to get down to the village outskirts normally loses only one or two tanks to the a/t gun there - but my infanrty following up get mangled from the forces in the central wood. Then the panthers come along and steadily pick off my tanks 'hiding' on the road by the wood- also vulnerable to a/t infantry! Is it a case that an extreme left flank movement is the way, to come in along the lateral road - but at some stage the Tigers will get a nice field of fire? AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGH! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 I have been there!! very frustrating Again Spoiler ALert..... * * * * * * * As the Russians I used the 2 SU SP's that come in late and send them up the middle so there are hull down in those scattered trees, but you have to wait to time there hunt into hull down command right.. (they die as they are meant to be target bait once the other flanking armour is in place, keep reading) you need two groups of armour, set up one on the far right ridge, and send the other half your armour ALL the way over to the left ridge in those scattered trees over there. Keep them out of LOS and drive FAST Try to wait to engage the AI Krout armour when it tries to move up the center of the map to the church. you have to be REAL patient to keep the armour on the right flank as far right to the map edge near the trees as possible. Once the other half the armour makes its way over to the right WAIT until the german armour moves forward and then HUNT everthing you have into LOS and you can "sort of" overwhelm them with targets, the battle will be over in about 2-3 minutes and if you are lucky you can give up 1.5 tanks to every dead one of theirs and still WIN (I think). IIRC I would save the arty for the those AT guns you need to find out where the AT guns are firing from and take them out with arty for this little trick to work because you can't win in a tank duel against the AT guns (unmolested) and the german AI tanks at the same time. the tactic is to have all your armour engage from BOTH flanks at the same time and overwhelm the TAC AI with Targets and hope to get some kill shots into the flanks of the tigers? hows' that I BEAT my head agaist the German AI on that on for few weeks before I came away with minor victory and was happy with that! Good luck -tom w [ January 02, 2003, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 HINT - Try the "Scenario Talk" forum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Originally posted by Agua: HINT - Try the "Scenario Talk" forum.oh sorry , maybe the thread will get locked and moved there -tom w 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Just practice your tank command. I believe I took out all the German tanks ( 4 Tigers and 4 Panthers if memory serves me correctly) and the German ATGs at the cost of 2 IS-2s ( one of which was taken out by German infantry while it was flanking the German positions sans infantry support). All supporting armour (remaining ISs and Assault guns) survived and proceeded to bombard the German infantry into ruin. Game was played vs a good human player PBEM. Instead of accepting an unfavourable casualty ratio you should concentrate on improving your basic command of armour IMO as doing so will gain you more in this ( and other scenarios) than replaying the same scenario time and again until you find the "winning key". P.s. Scenario was played once, double-blind so I had no opportunity to figure out the "winning key" myself except to simply apply good, basic armour tactics. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maj Soshtokovich Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Hi, Well I can only say this "good human player" is not. I have played this a number of times against the AI and it will as Steve suggests - always win. The reason is that the Germans are vet and have good optics while the Russian are well....Russian. The idea of "ganging up" on the German monsters however are what Steve suggests. I have found the best option for the Russian is the " Shoot 'n' Scoot" option. Try and get the Tigers/Panthers to rotate thier turrets and engage them in one direction then the other. It is a very hard game as the Russian. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Soshtokovich, And while I admire your ability to render judgements re: a player's ability without ever having played him or gotten any details about his tactics etc I would point out to you that, perhaps, you should seek to improve your own play before simply falling back on the old chestnut that the scenario really is "that hard". Experience and optics are material advantages for the Germans. it is your job, as Soviet commander, to negate those advantages. IF you are failing to do so then you are FAILING as a commander. Saying that "they win because of experience and better optics" is simply a less ego-dystonic way of saying that "they win because I can't figure out how to negate their experience and better optics". Ok, let's work through this... At what range did most of you fight the Panthers and where were you and where were they? Who got the drop in said fights and who was buttoned? Did ANYONE manage to achieve a combined arms attack on the Panthers? Answer those and I'll tell you how I tackled them ok and we can see where I differed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrapin Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I actually edited this scenario to take out the Tigers and replaced them with guns. It was just too obnoxious otherwise. The Panthers were fine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Kernow Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Fion. I dont make assumptions about your opponent. I conclude from his dismal performance (Loss of all his armour/your loss of of only IS2s) that perhaps he lost the armour battle more than you won it. The german player has such advantages in this scenario that even the AI can leverage them into a win against a competent human. Basicaly the german tank commander has it a lot easier in this scenario, all he has to do is stand off at distnace and make sure he isnt flanked. Your opponent must (as demonstrated by his losses) have failed to do this. All though the russian player has a numerical advantage, this will be soon traded in if he opts for a straight up toe to toe fire fight. Flanking the enemy armour and getting in close is your only hope and this isnt the easiest task as one is forced to cover some distance and therefore abandon one's infantry screen.The presence of ATG's dosnt make this any easier. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Guys, There is already a discussion with a lot of pointers in the "Scenario Talk" forum. I don't know why folks have such a hard time using the proper forum. It is winnable by the Allies, but you don't go "toe to toe" with the German AFVs, at least in the sense of slugging it out till the Germans are out of tanks. Go search for that thread and there are several posts in there which tell you how it's done. And I apologize for coming off like some sort of ninny, but scenario discussion is what the Scenario Talk forum is for. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 Kernow, 2 forum logins? That's questionable. Well I think he was forced to lose it by proper use of combined arms ( keep the tanks distant and lose the infantry battle and his ATGs, bring the tanks close and the infantry will be held off but my tanks gain a decisive advantage). Again I caution you that a good player can put you in a position where have NOTHING but bad choices. I think it would be wrong to criticise someone who had nothing but bad choices and, taking one, succumbed. If you as the German kept your tanks back I'd be happy to conduct some long-range dueling with isolated portions of your force while my infantry cleared the woods. Eventually your infantry line would be breached and you'd either have to withdraw and retrench somewhere else or committ some armour to help your infantry. Either is acceptable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 Originally posted by Fionn: Kernow, 2 forum logins? That's questionable. Not at all - many logins were "lost" during the crashes but can now be recovered using the "lost your password?" function. Also some ppl have different logins from different locations such as work and home, not necessarily being computer literate enough to realise you can function with only one. As you say about his assessment of your opponent - you shouldn't be judging him without knowing anything about the background either!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maj Soshtokovich Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 OK why not reply........... The problems are 2. 1) The German can just sit tight. ( Has good LOS's) and armour. 2)The German has "LOS friends" on the Russian attack zone(s). These are AT guns and infantry. Thus the Russian can't very well sneak up the German. The right flank attack is hard because the ATG from far down the road can hit them or IF NOT it is where the Tigers come on. Layer the Pamthers come on in the same area. The left flank is where the German AFV convoy is closest to. I played the game such that I destroyed as much these " LOS friends" as quickly as possible in a bid to get some dead ground ( from LOS) to regroup. This involved also sticking to the " objectives". Anyway, its no biggy if you won this or not Fionn my life ( or CM2 persona) won't depend on it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caesar Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 This topic piqued my interest in the scenerio, so I gave it a try. I came away with a minor victory against the AI, though I did have the advantage of knowing the scenerio was tough and that there were tigers somewhere (I didn't read any of the spoilers). All I really did to take out his tanks was to use shoot and scoot in mass. My infantry advanced mainly down the centre and left and this caused his tanks to open up on them. Then I would shoot and scoot 6 - 8 tanks over the ridge targetted on the offending tank. I lost more tanks due to some stupidity than I did when I traded blows (4 of 9 losses in shoot and scoot exchanges) One question though, if I don't have LOS when setting the target, does it advantage me to set the target before doing the shoot and scoot or should I use cover arc or none at all. Which causes my tank to fire fastest? Intuitively it seemed most logical to target a known target but I seem to recall some topic where this was investigated and found not to necessarily be so. BTW Agua, I tried searching the scenerio forum and didn't find it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 Well, thanks for trying the search anyway, but it worked for me: Jaegermeister AAR Another Jaegermeister AAR It helps if you try alternative spellings (in this case, the way it's spelled in the style of the scenario) and search the entire message. [ January 05, 2003, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: Agua ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.