Biltong's Campaign Rules

[zukkov]

as my nickname suggests, i would love to play as the soviets comrad. but since i've discovered biltaid, i'm no longer motivated to go through all the rolling required for each scenario. lol..

i salute you though for your efforts and hope that you keep us bcr fans informed on how the campaign progresses.

[ July 13, 2003, 03:34 AM: Message edited by: zukkov ]

[atiff]

Well, it seems to be going OK so far. Have played two "official" battles (other than some testing) and the modifications seem to be working OK. In both battles, ceasefires have resulted after some bloody fighting, but in good BCR tradition for the most part it has been my supporting units (not my core force) doing most of the dying.

I have been giving the Axis side (who are usually attacking) a +1 experience bonus (I would class myself as a Regular-Veteran player in BCR terms), but maybe I need to bump this up to +2.

On attack the AI of course falls into the trap of bunching up too much, but when they are high experience they can get away with it better (as it is much harder to defeat a concerted push by Vet/Crack troops). Usually I am outnumbered at that point of contact as I am strung out a bit not knowing at which point the concerted push will strike.

Nevertheless, the games have been fun, pretty intense, affairs and that is what this is all about.

[Joachim]

Originally posted by atiff:

... but in good BCR tradition for the most part it has been my supporting units (not my core force) doing most of the dying.

Now I found out what has to change for '43 - favor will heavily suffer when sacrifying your supporting units! They don't belong to you - treat them as (welcome) guests!

Thou art an reckless glory-hunter. (Set on the blacklist for the Knights Cross). :mad:

I have been giving the Axis side (who are usually attacking) a +1 experience bonus (I would class myself as a Regular-Veteran player in BCR terms), but maybe I need to bump this up to +2.

If you are really veteran, you would not need this .

But maybe you just lack some experience vs the AI. If you get to know his tricks, you can beat him more easily. Try playing on custom-made maps - the AI sets up in locations that make sense - and thus you can guess better where he will be. The most important feature on the attack: Go for a single, outlying flag with good cover to defend it vs the AI, cut off by good lanes of fire from your supporting units. Take it. Wait for counterattack. Slaughter AI reserves there, continue attack. Often the casualty points exceed the flag points, so you only need to capture a few flags for a total victory!

On attack the AI of course falls into the trap of bunching up too much, but when they are high experience they can get away with it better (as it is much harder to defeat a concerted push by Vet/Crack troops). Usually I am outnumbered at that point of contact as I am strung out a bit not knowing at which point the concerted push will strike.

Concentrate your forces. A good defensive position includes predictable routes for the attacker. Forget about layered defense vs the AI - it only works against the forward elements. But the mass follows so quickly, it is very hard to pull out if the terrain ain't dense enough (or it is a foggy night). Defend where you think the AI will attack. Do not defend every flag - just kill enough with little own casualites.

The AI will attack thru covered routes. Minefields, wire and TRPs on these are just great!

Gruß

Joachim

[Major Jerkov]

I really like the idea of this. Is their a walkthrough for getting started on a campaign, or something very similar? Could someone gimme a lil' push in the right direction? Please?

I really enjoyed campaign missions in EF/EF2, and its the one thing I really miss...

[atiff]

Originally posted by Scarhead:

If you are really veteran, you would not need this .

Scarhead, this was in reference to me playing as the Soviets, so giving the Axis side +1 (or +2)experience was helping out the enemy!

See my post back up a few, where I mention I have been adapting BCR to being played by the Soviet side against Axis AI.

[Joachim]

Originally posted by atiff:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Scarhead:

If you are really veteran, you would not need this .

Scarhead, this was in reference to me playing as the Soviets, so giving the Axis side +1 (or +2)experience was helping out the enemy!

See my post back up a few, where I mention I have been adapting BCR to being played by the Soviet side against Axis AI. </font>

[Joachim]

Originally posted by Major Jerkov:

I really like the idea of this. Is their a walkthrough for getting started on a campaign, or something very similar? Could someone gimme a lil' push in the right direction? Please?

I really enjoyed campaign missions in EF/EF2, and its the one thing I really miss...

Well, there is no easy walkthru.

There is a ruleset where you start with a company and some armor in '41, get here and there a few attached units that stay around a bit longer till they are gone, and additional troops for each battle.

The campaign is based on lots of dice rolls and some calculations. You can do them yourself, customize the MSexcel sheet or use an available Java program.

The bad thing is you have to manually fill in some parameters from the AAR (for each unit of your company). Besides from that, it is addictive.

Rules etc: BCR on SuperSulo's site

Rules are available until 42. As it takes rather long to play the campaign, the rules for '43 should be ready before anyone ends '42.

BTW: More info in the first post on page 1 of this topic

Gruß

Joachim

[ July 15, 2003, 08:38 AM: Message edited by: Scarhead ]

[j0ker]

So I've finally made it to Week 2 of Jan. '42 (hooray for me) and this continuous process of getting about half my troops on the field with only 10% ammo is beginning to not be so much fun anymore.

I can understand that this was probably the way it was back then but - sheesh - having to crank out multiple games in one night because the AI calls ceasefire and hands me defeats because I don't have enough ammo & troops, I get the point already.

Any suggestions on how to tweak the #s a bit to make it more interesting? I hate to just go with 100% ammo, or with 100% troops, i know that's not entirely fair either.... (neither is repeatedly facing Allies +100%, but at least it's realistic, or so i've been told)

okay, can i whine any more. thank you. j0ker.

[Joachim]

Originally posted by j0ker:

So I've finally made it to Week 2 of Jan. '42 (hooray for me) and this continuous process of getting about half my troops on the field with only 10% ammo is beginning to not be so much fun anymore.

I can understand that this was probably the way it was back then but - sheesh - having to crank out multiple games in one night because the AI calls ceasefire and hands me defeats because I don't have enough ammo & troops, I get the point already.

Any suggestions on how to tweak the #s a bit to make it more interesting? I hate to just go with 100% ammo, or with 100% troops, i know that's not entirely fair either.... (neither is repeatedly facing Allies +100%, but at least it's realistic, or so i've been told)

okay, can i whine any more. thank you. j0ker.

If I have any favor left, I spend those 10 points for the ammo +1 modifier. That way I get at least 20% of ammo.

Some thoughts:

If the AI has only 10%, by pressing the "ceasefire" button, you can end the battle immediately. If this happens and you are on the defense, you have a total victory. For a meeting, you have a draw. On the attack, you have a total defeat. In those favourable cases - don't even set up :cool: . But you still have to do the replacements and other after battle calculations... :mad:

Conclusion:

Guess I have to change the rules so each side gets at least 20% ammo (before favor is spent ). The attacker should get at least 30%. IIRC it is only with immediate attacks the attacker gets less than that.

So especially for your dire needs, the customer service of BCR delivers some ammo crates. If you get 10% ammo, boost it to 20%, as attacker boost it to 30%. Not very much, but fire discipline is crucial. Wait till you can see the white in the eyes of the TC. Do not spread out. Only defeat a portion of the attacking enemy. Delay him, do not destroy him while on the defense. On the offense: Concentrate on one flag and wait for the counter.

Your casualties before battle are annoying, I know. Your companies exp is dwindling. But remember: 3 consecutive battles with 50% losses and you're decimated. Lose all favor, but jump one month ahead - which ain't so bad after all. As you will likely experience this: Spend any favor you have on where you need it the most.

BTW: You do not need to follow each rule in BCR. The most important goal is to have fun! The rules try to be realistic and teach you that this is war, and you don't get what you want. But their full application depends on your personal level of masochism (Yes! beat me! whip me! give me rude names! ).

BTW2:

At the moment, I can understand your problem. Glad I reached the 2nd week of 3/42. I (3500pts) expect a large random forces assault with +100 (ie some 16000 pts) while I am at 20% ammo on a huge map. Setup is crucial...

Gruß

Joachim

[atiff]

Originally posted by Scarhead:

Uuupuups... Memory failure.... But now that you mention it - yes, then thou art a veteran!

How exactly do you play as Soviets? Most things should work, except for the battle group sheet and the force size modifiers (+25% etc).

Counter and immediate attacks should switch more or less.

I'd like to investigate this and maybe have a look how to twitch the rules to allow playing both sides - if it is only a minor twitch of a few parameters. Only problem is playtesting, but it seems there is a Soviet playtester around .

Basically, I went through the sheets and made what changes I thought were appropriate (the key word being "thought"; I don't know enough to call these more than educated guesses). It all seems to work OK though.

I can send you the Excel file if you like, just let me know.

A couple of things I did change was the extent of many of the tables. In BCR 41 v2.3, the tables are all 1-10, but modifers can often take the number outside of this range. So I extended the range to the min and max possible, and added in a few values for variety.

EG: the "summer" weather table has Hot weather as far down as "1", but modifier can actually give you a number as low as -3, I think. So I extended the table to -3 as follows (roughly): 1 to -1: Hot, -2 Warm, -3 Hot. The Warm is thrown in for a bit of variety, but usually a low roll will give you Hot weather.

Similarly for ammo (and this is also relevant to the psots above), a modified roll of "10" or more in v2.3 gives you 10% ammo, and the modifers can be as bad as +7 IIRC. On my extended table, "10" (and 11) is 40% ammo IIRC, and then 12-13=30%, 14-15=20% and 16-17=10%. So you only get really low ammo if you roll badly in bad conditions (ie, with heavy modifiers)

Anyway, that's the deal so far. Like I said, I can post to anyone who wants it but it is still version 1.00.

[Joachim]

Originally posted by atiff:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Scarhead:

Uuupuups... Memory failure.... But now that you mention it - yes, then thou art a veteran!

How exactly do you play as Soviets? Most things should work, except for the battle group sheet and the force size modifiers (+25% etc).

Counter and immediate attacks should switch more or less.

I'd like to investigate this and maybe have a look how to twitch the rules to allow playing both sides - if it is only a minor twitch of a few parameters. Only problem is playtesting, but it seems there is a Soviet playtester around .

Basically, I went through the sheets and made what changes I thought were appropriate (the key word being "thought"; I don't know enough to call these more than educated guesses). It all seems to work OK though.

I can send you the Excel file if you like, just let me know.

A couple of things I did change was the extent of many of the tables. In BCR 41 v2.3, the tables are all 1-10, but modifers can often take the number outside of this range. So I extended the range to the min and max possible, and added in a few values for variety.

EG: the "summer" weather table has Hot weather as far down as "1", but modifier can actually give you a number as low as -3, I think. So I extended the table to -3 as follows (roughly): 1 to -1: Hot, -2 Warm, -3 Hot. The Warm is thrown in for a bit of variety, but usually a low roll will give you Hot weather.

Similarly for ammo (and this is also relevant to the psots above), a modified roll of "10" or more in v2.3 gives you 10% ammo, and the modifers can be as bad as +7 IIRC. On my extended table, "10" (and 11) is 40% ammo IIRC, and then 12-13=30%, 14-15=20% and 16-17=10%. So you only get really low ammo if you roll badly in bad conditions (ie, with heavy modifiers)

Anyway, that's the deal so far. Like I said, I can post to anyone who wants it but it is still version 1.00. </font>

[Biltong]

Hi Guys,

It’s official. Scarhead will be taking over from me. He’s a statistician, which should come in very handy

Good luck Scarhead!! Hope you get as much satisfaction out of BCR as I did.

Biltong

[Biltong]

Hi Guys,

It’s official. Scarhead will be taking over from me. He’s a statistician, which should come in very handy

Good luck Scarhead!! Hope you get as much satisfaction out of BCR as I did.

Biltong

[atiff]

Originally posted by Scarhead:

Cutting off after 1 and 10 has its pros. I guess Biltong knew what he did. While I personally like to play with low ammo it may take away a lot of fun for the beginner.

Maybe I'll add this to the hardships of being a veteran and add a parameter here :mad:

As for the weather: I can live with the hot weather - what is really tough is if you get a blizzard in extreme cold once... hard to get anything else after that

Please mail me the excel sheets! (Already sent an email to you as my address ain't public :cool: )

Gruß

Joachim

Yes, I haven't encountered that blizzard situation yet, but as part of that weather table there is a chance of getting snow (rather than blizzard) at the higher end.

Mail to you soon, just as soon as I stop having 14 hours days at work so I can get on to my home email

[atiff]

Yah! Scarhead for taking over the workload.

Yah! Biltong for the inspiration and getting us this far.

Yah! to everyone playing and thus keeping the interest alive.

[Joachim]

Originally posted by Biltong:

Hi Guys,

It’s official. Scarhead will be taking over from me. He’s a statistician, which should come in very handy

Good luck Scarhead!! Hope you get as much satisfaction out of BCR as I did.

Biltong

Thanks for the kind words...

As I was raised in a region where "not bad" is about the most praise you can get, I just lack the vocabulary to praise BCR. Guess taking over the work says it all.

Now to outline what I will do (and what not)

a) try to keep the spirit of BCR just as it was. Catering the grogs, those who want to improve their tactics and those just seeking fun. Of course the latter group will automatically be pushed into the other groups.

If during a battle you bang your head on the desk out of sheer frustration, I know I did my job right! Just make sure there are no sharp objects on the desk

expand the rules further, but I am not sure whether I will buy CMAK - East front is fine for me. So it is more likely to get '45 than El Alamein.

c) I will probably not create any battle packs. If anybody feels like doing some special maps and a theme, please mail me (or advertise on the forum)

d) I plan to change the rules sheet a bit, partly inspired by Max Bauhaus' autoparameters. If it works as planned, everybody who understood the old rules will be able to understand the new rule sheet, as there should be only slight adjustments necessary to ease maintenance. There should be 3 more sheets: Auto-Rules (where you get auto-generated battle parameters), Auto-Experience-Calculator (for the after battle calculations) and a parameters sheet where the parameters are machine readable.

Just like most of the people here, I have a RL that consumes too much time, but 26 workdays left for holidays this year . Gonna see what I can do.

BTW: If anybody from BF.C wants to include a campaign system in CMAK or CM2, I'd be happy to volunteer and help.

Gruß

Joachim

[BRO, JD]

The BCR looks great--a great way to get a better feel for the whole campaign and to give you more of an incentive to preserve your forces instead of making last-ditch suicide attacks as the time runs out on a normal scenario.

But I haven't gotten started yet.

I keep thinking that I have a grasp of the paper rules, even though I'm using BiltAid. Still, every time I try to start a battle, I hit another stumbling block that gives me a headache and tells me it's time to go to bed instead.

A few questions:

1) BiltAid rolled up an INFANTRY force mix battle for me. But if I enter that into the QB, I won't be allowed to purchase my organic 3 tanks, right? How do I handle that?

2) Latest battle was a 700-point Axis Assault. However, there weren't enough points included for me to buy my 3 organic tanks. Do I fight sans my Panzer II?

3) One time I rolled up a SECURITY division. No Aussklarung infantry company (isn't that the one I'm supposed to use?). What to do?

4) Hungarian, Romanian, Italian forces? Will I be able to keep my regular inf. company, three tanks, etc., if play a battle as those forces? How does that work?

Thanks for any help. I've read the rules and these posts, but am probably overlooking a lot of this.

[zukkov]

hey bro, you are lost aren't you? lol. the type of force is only usd to determine the extra units you get when you create the first(fake) battle. that gives you the selections to choose from. when you start the 2nd(real) battle, you set your forces to unlimited, so you can buy your core force, plus whatever selections you got from the first one.

[BRO, JD]

Do I also use BiltAid to create the first battle? Then just add those forces at the bottom to my Battle Group?

[zukkov]

biltaid sets all the parameters for each battle. i'll use my first battle to demonstrate. force mix:inf; nationality:romanian; div type:mech; quality:med; fitness: fit; casualties:none; ammo:full; force size:1250; this is all i need to set up the first qb. i start a qb with all those parameters, time set to june 41, and the location to south. set purchase to automatic. i then generate a qb(no other settings are important at this stage). when the game starts, i make note of the forces available and exit from the game. then i start the real battle, and set my force type, nationality, and experience to unrestricted, and purchase to allow human. also, i set all the other parameters(ie terrain, weather, wind, etc) to whatever biltaid rolled up for me. then when i buy my forces, first i buy my core force. for this i need to set forces to german and div type to mech. then i change the force type to whatever biltaid setup for me(in my case romanian and division type mech) and buy from the selections i got in the first qb. by the way, make note of the experience level of your add-on forces in the first qb. even though the experience was medium, the romanians were all green, so i had to set experience to green when purchasing them.

for your first battle, you core force will be regular. remember not to purchase more additional units of each type than the points given by biltaid. if you have points left over for a certain type of force, then you can buy whatever you want up to the points given you. in my case i was given 200 points of armor, but i didn't get any in the fake qb. therefore i purchased a regular pzr2c and a regular mkIVf.

anyway, i hope this helps. there's so much more to explain, and quite frankly, i'm not the 1 who can do it best.

good luck!

[Joachim]

Originally posted by BRO, JD:

The BCR looks great--a great way to get a better feel for the whole campaign and to give you more of an incentive to preserve your forces instead of making last-ditch suicide attacks as the time runs out on a normal scenario.

But I haven't gotten started yet.

I keep thinking that I have a grasp of the paper rules, even though I'm using BiltAid. Still, every time I try to start a battle, I hit another stumbling block that gives me a headache and tells me it's time to go to bed instead.

A few questions:

1) BiltAid rolled up an INFANTRY force mix battle for me. But if I enter that into the QB, I won't be allowed to purchase my organic 3 tanks, right? How do I handle that?

2) Latest battle was a 700-point Axis Assault. However, there weren't enough points included for me to buy my 3 organic tanks. Do I fight sans my Panzer II?

3) One time I rolled up a SECURITY division. No Aussklarung infantry company (isn't that the one I'm supposed to use?). What to do?

4) Hungarian, Romanian, Italian forces? Will I be able to keep my regular inf. company, three tanks, etc., if play a battle as those forces? How does that work?

Thanks for any help. I've read the rules and these posts, but am probably overlooking a lot of this.

ad 1) For the real battle, you select unrestricted forces, unrestricted division type at unrestricted quality.

Thus you can buy your core forces and the auxiliary troops

ad 2) In the paper rules there is the provisional force size. This is

a) your core force

the attached troops (that stay with you for a while, bought from attachment points awarded after battle)

c) your auxiliary forces specific for that one battle, e.g. from Romania

The value of a) for the first battle is about 653 (rarity standard), but can vary due to more experienced units or weakened troops

The value for varies, for the first battle it is 0

The value of c) is say 300 inf, 150 vehicles, 100 armor and 150 arty = 700pts.

Your provisional force size is 1353.

You have no casualties, the battle is assault

(battle type factor =1.7)

Exp = regular and fit troops

So you get

force size for CM battle = 1353 * (1- 0 casualties)/1.7 = 795.88 points.

As you cannot select 795 points, you have to choose the next higher value, which for this example is 800. If you select an allied assualt, CM will award you with 1.7 times the points as the defender, who gets 800. Thus, from thos 1360 pts you should be able to buy your 653pt core and thos 700 auxiliary troops

Now you make a mock battle with only 700 pts (auxiliary) from the battle parameters per Biltaid or the rules sheet. You get 2 security companies, several HMGs, a 81mm and a 105 mm spotter, a lone SdKfz 221 but no armor. Write down the forces for that battle.

The real thing is the unrestricted battle, where you buy your core, 300 inf or support, at least the SdKfz 222 and some other vehicles of your choice for a sum of at most 150 pts (if the AI in the auto-generated batlte did not spend all pts in one category, you can buy what you like), then you chose to buy the 81mm FO (87 or something) and can't afford the 105mm anymore (148 IIRC, 148+87>150), so you add some cheapo 75mm FO at 54 pts. You choose whichever tanks you want, but spend less than 100 pts.

Now there should be some pts left, but these are a hidden bonus for the AI.

Oops... 2) should be answered above, probably you did not notice the attacker gets mor epoints or to calculate the provisional force size for the real battle or that there is a mock battle before.

3)and 4) The real battle is unrestricted, see above.

Have fun!

Gruß

Joachim

[Joachim]

[ July 18, 2003, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Scarhead ]

[BRO, JD]

Zukkov and Scarhead--Thanks, I think I'm tracking now. I'll give it a try when I get some free time, but since my wife is home from work now...

[zukkov]

i'm glad you posted scarhead. i didn't realize the first qb was set only to the number of points equal to the auxillery forces. makes more sense that way....

[zukkov]

when using biltaid, how do you add your attached units? after battle number 2, it said i had 20 points for attached units, but how do i go back and add them to my roster?