PLEASE EXPLAIN DRAWS

[lczaplys]

I tried to post this earlier.

Last night I played a quick 20-move game (Oct 44 Allied Assault, South). It was a small map with trees and hills. I was defending as Axis 4 flags: 100 pt and 300 pt on left on hills and two 300 points on right side with one up front in the open and one in the rear in pines. I choose to defend with two Pioneer platoons, 2 heavy machine guns, about 24 anti-tank mines, and about 10 barbed-wires. My opponent had a 122 mm bombardment, 3 heavy tanks, 1 BA-6, and a lot of infantry.

My opponent tried to get at my position on my left from about move 10 to 15 with infantry and couldn’t do much because of machine gun fire and barbed wire; no incursion there. At about move 15 his tanks started to move in on my right side towards the 300 pt flag in the open. One tank was immobilized and one abandoned at the mine fields. One tank and the BA-6 made it through. From move 16 to move 20 his infantry on my left was stopped by barbed wire and machine guns. On my right, his tank, BA-6, and infantry headed towards the 300 pt flag in the open. At move 20 he had made no progress on the right side and on the left he had the BA-6 destroyed, and the remaining tank and infantry at the 300 pt flag in the open. My score showed 57% to 44% in my favor. The closest he was to the other 3 flags was about 130 meters.

But the result was a draw and I’m trying to figure out why. Tally at the end for the Axis was 106 Men OK, 20 Total Casualties, 5 Men Killed, 700 flag points, 309 enemy casualties. Allied tally was 193 Men OK, 42 Total Casualties, 10 Men Killed, 2 Vehicles Destroyed, 300 flag points, 527 enemy casualties, and 67 Prisoners Taken. Program said a 53% to 47% draw.

I’m puzzled by the draw; I held 3 flags comfortably meaning no enemy was even close. Could it be the presence of tanks on his side, one immobilized and one near a flag?

[Mad Russian]

Count it up. You held the flags but gave up a lot of causualties doing it.

More often than not, it is far more important to kill enemy units than it is to try to hold flags. The points for a late war tank for example can be the same as for a large flag.

Once again count it up. You lose three tanks taking the flag. Each of those tanks was worth what the flag was worth. You won't win that way.

A lot of scenario designers will stack flags on a position to make them more expensive and worth the expenditure of your resources to take. In a scenario with dynamic flags they can be worth as much as 2000 points and that makes them worth the fight.

Just depends on the value of the flags vs the cost of the units. In this case you lost 200 more points in casusalties and that made up most of the difference for one of those large flags you held.

Hope this helps.

[JasonC]

Nope, it was all your mines and wire. They counted as "causalties" in favor of the attackers.

On flags, you kept 700 and he got 300, net +400 to you. You got a heavy tank and 42 men and earned 300 points from them. If you had no losses you would have won easily.

But he was awarded 525 knock-out points and 67 captured points (presumably from an overun MG or two in the case of the last). How does it happen his 42 men lost gave so much less to you, than your 20 men lost gave to him?

Answer, you spent 300-350 points on obstacles. The program adds up your live points at the end and doesn't find these points among them, and considers them "lost". Your actual losses were probably only about 200 points. So your total was correct at a little over 1000, but his was around 900 when it should have been around 600. Which would have given you a respectable 62-38 win.

This is a known issue and many consider it a bug. Obstacles should not generate knock-out points for the other side.

[imported_KG_ThorsHammer]

I am stunned; i have played this game for years and consider myself well versed in its' inner workings but I did not know that. @@O

[dieseltaylor]

But you only joined the forum in May! : )

I had actually forgotten about that problem it is so long since I played CMBB with an attack defense! It is worth reading the tips etc. as there are lots of little nuggets hidden away.

I respect the fact that the more you play the more you learn and theoretically the better you play. Are little pixeltruppen may not get bonuses for experience but we sure do : )

[michael_wittman44]

Originally posted by KG_ThorsHammer:

I am stunned; i have played this game for years and consider myself well versed in its' inner workings but I did not know that. @@O

"The person who says they know everything is a lier or a fool" Anonymous. Well self explainitory as is the saying "you learn something new everyday." Humans are unique creatures, we learn by observation but what we do better than other creatures is being able to learn from our mistakes and rationalize, among other things. theres no shame in not knowing something. Hope this rambling makes you feel better not worse