SonBae Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Got a quickie for the grogs and our Finnish brothers out there...what is the history on the Continuation War helmet with the skull painted on the front? And example can be seen at: Continuation War Helmet Thanks!!! [ February 22, 2003, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: SonBae ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 I tried, I tried, christ, I tried to make it work and look right. Saddly the way the bmp is distorted by the model makes it extremely difficult. I got resonably close and might give it a try as a CMMOS mod when I get to the Finns. MikeT 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Originally posted by SonBae: Got a quickie for the grogs and our Finnish brothers out there...what is the history on the Continuation War helmet with the skull painted on the front? And example can be seen at Continuation War Helmet Thanks!!! A book I have shows Finnish troops in action wearing those helmets and in the caption it said they were memebers of a Finnish SS unit. I have no idea if that is correct or now, FWIW 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asok Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Originally posted by V: A book I have shows Finnish troops in action wearing those helmets and in the caption it said they were memebers of a Finnish SS unit. I have no idea if that is correct or now, FWIW Doesn't sound correct. There were around a thousand Finnish soldiers in the SS Wiking, Nordland regiment, '41-'43, IIRC. Any pictures of them should display German kit. Some of those Finnish SS-men had previously fought in the Winter War, which also (obviously)does not apply here. After their service with Wiking, they were scattered pretty evenly throughout the army. They were considered to be untrustworthy, and would not even have been allowed to fight together as a unit after their SS service, IIRC (have books, may check if required). The skull helmet is something that seems to pop up once in a while, invariably having something to do with bearded American re-enactors instead of serious historians... hth 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 On the Finnish "skull" helmets and the matter of bearded American reenactors as opposed to serious historians! I found this at http://www.mosin-nagant.net/Finn-Helmets.html I should note that the markings on Finnish helmets such as skulls, crosses, and like symbols are a bit hard to decipher as to meaning and origin. As it was not a standard practice to use such markings in the Finnish Army, one has to do a bit of homework and guesswork to put the pieces together. To further cloud the issue many of the books that focus on German helmets have incorrect or questionable information when dealing with the Finnish issue of such helmets. To locate a helmet that has such markings is quite rare and such helmets should be considered prime collector's items. It is clear as to what some of the markings signify, as in some of the examples below, but overall the painting of such images or symbols is hard to breakdown. It is known that Kev Os 4 ( 4th Light Infantry Unit - 4th Division Army Of The Isthmus ) as well as the Uusimma Dragoon Regiment made use of skulls as unit icons or symbols on their issue helmets. These markings can range from very simple to quite complex and ornate. One of the more famous examples of such a helmet is located in the Cavalry Museum of Lappeenranta Finland. This helmet, with very detailed and involved artwork, has been featured in a number of reference materials including Ludwig Baer's fine book on German steel helmets. The pic below is from the site and is historical. There is also a page of pictures, admittadly at least one is modern but there is this picture. If you wish to jump to the pictures only the link is: http://www.mosin-nagant.net/Finn-Helmets-2.html I hope this helps the matter of the helmets and skull patterns. In fact this site is so useful I might as well try to create several for a CMMOS mod, one more to the list. For anyone interested in helping let me know. MikeT [ February 22, 2003, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: MikeT ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonBae Posted February 23, 2003 Author Share Posted February 23, 2003 Thanks MikeT. I have seen that picture too...in fact it is what spurred the interest. I used the site I listed cause it showed that helmet in color (even though it did have the bearded re-enactor). Was never quite sure if the skull was localized or "soldier Art" troops will add to the helmet or an actual unit marking. Based on the assumption it is a unit marking, like MikeT's site suggests, I did a little mod showing the skull. I used AndrewTFs new Finn uniforms as the base. Posted over at.... CM Mods 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchlstrt Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Got it, Nice job. I would suggest toning down the 'whiteness' of the symbol, fwiw. I've found a little white goes a long way in Mods. If your're thinking about doing any of the other symbols from that site I vote yes. Thanks strt 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonBae Posted February 23, 2003 Author Share Posted February 23, 2003 Good point STRT...it was too white...I toned it done by yellowing the skull a bit...updated zip at CMMOD Database. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Originally posted by SonBae: Good point STRT...it was too white...I toned it done by yellowing the skull a bit...updated zip at CMMOD Database. Nice work... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benpark Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Modding helmets is, like MikeT said-the work a' the devil! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Sonbae,please contact me at home. desertcmt@attbi.com I have a request about your Finnish helmet work. MikeT 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TN Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Originally posted by SonBae: Thanks MikeT. I have seen that picture too...in fact it is what spurred the interest. I used the site I listed cause it showed that helmet in color (even though it did have the bearded re-enactor). Was never quite sure if the skull was localized or "soldier Art" troops will add to the helmet or an actual unit marking. Based on the assumption it is a unit marking, like MikeT's site suggests, I did a little mod showing the skull. I used AndrewTFs new Finn uniforms as the base. Posted over at.... CM Mods I have nothing but respect for the person who maintains Moisin-Nagant.net site and its Finnish pages, and they are usually quite accurate. But I must say that in all pictures of Finnish soldiers in WWII that I've seen over the years in Finland I'd never seen a helmet with emblems painted on it. I first ran into one on the KevOs 4 re-enactor page. Must go and check the Cavalry Museum next summer. Anyway, I just would like to point out that the use of any unit insignia on uniforms was pretty strongly disapproved in the Finnish Army during the war. They were used locally, depending on the commander, but I don't believe they were as ubiquitous as the Big Red One or the Screaming Eagle shoulder patches for example. I think the insignia of the Finnish Armored Division (three arrows pointing left in a green field) was the first one to receive any kind of semi-official status or approval. After the war these emblems have been used much more in commemorative medals, veterans gatherings, books and so on. So if you do Finnish uniform mods, the realistic way would be to steer clear of anything that has a very flashy image like skulls etc.. Un-Finnish, IMHO... Some images of what Finnish divisional emblems looked like can be found from http://users.skynet.be/hendrik/eng/Fin-Comm3.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 TN, I think you posted the wrong link. This one took me to a site with Finnish medals. Good to have but I would prefer to have a divisional emblem site. Maybe those could be factored into the CMMOS somehow. MikeT 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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