MG Bunker blows up MG Carrier

[Meach]

I swear, I have the game saved as well. QB Vs AI. Soviet MG carrier advances towards my bunker which opens up with a burst of fire and the Carrier exploded in a huge ball of flame!!

Hollywood action or what? Does this mean that MG fire has some armour penetration value as well? I was well surprised to see it go up to MG fire.

Was that meant to happen or has anyone else seen anything like this?

[Andreas]

Yes, have seen it. MGs certainly have armour penetration - just try a German HMG against a Purple Heart Box, at short distance (below 200m). You'll be surprised. The Hollywood effect is a bit annoying sometimes, but dead is dead.

The ammo used for this was called SMK (steel mantlet core). IIRC it could defeat up to 8/9mm of armour at short ranges.

[Meach]

Ahhhhh! Thanks, Andreas. I read about that SMK rounds from WW1. They used them against the Whippet tanks and other armoured Vehicles?

I am sure they were fired from standard rifles as well but I could be wrong.

Thanks again for the info, any more details would be welcome.

[flamingknives]

SMK rounds are essentially armour piercing varients of the Mauser 7.92x57mm rifle round, so it would be equally at home in a K98 or an MG43/MG42. The minimal behind armour effect would mean that it's more useful in an MG though.

[Andreas]

Sorry, mishtake in translation. SmK (sic!) stands for 'Pointed Round with Core' (Spitzgeschoss mit Kern). The core is steel, with a lead cover and a steel mantlet.

The MV would be lower than that of an ordinary round, but the speed loss would also be lower, leading to higher impact energy at range. Initially introduced to deal with trench shield armour in WW I, then used against first tanks.

Quantities available, at least early in the war, must have been reasonable, judging from an ammo use report by 21.ID during early Barbarossa, where ~ 8% of 7.92 ammo fired off during the two days of a major engagement (in which Soviet tanks were present) was SmK.

[Meach]

Alright. I see what you mean. Thanks for that.

Did the allies have anything like it?

I have heard that German MG's fired "ball" ammunition, I am guessing that it was just as described, non AP rounds for maximum shock effect agains unarmoured targets i.e humans?

[Alexei]

Andreas,

What do you call a "Purple Heart Box"?

[flamingknives]

I think he is referring to the M3 Halftrack which was notoriously permeable to MG fire.

Ball ammunition is simple, jacketed lead alloy. Cheap and cheerful

[YankeeDog]

Originally posted by Meach:

Did the allies have anything like it?

Yes. I don't know what whether the Russians had AP ammo for any of their major small arms calibers, but the US produced AP ammo in the .30-'06 caliber. My understanding is that this AP ammo was issued primarily for the BAR, though since the caliber was the same there would be nothing to prevent troops using it in Garands as well. I read one comment by a BAR Gunner from the Italian Campaign who said that by 1944 they were pretty much using only the AP ammo in the BAR because of its superior penetration into cover (buildings and the like).

Of course, the .50 M2 also had AP ammo, and this AP ammo was used extensively for aircraft mounted weapons (one per 4-5 rounds, I believe). I don't know how much .50 AP ammo was issued to ground troops.

Cheers,

YD

[Meach]

Thanks for taking the time to post. I appreciate any info I get in my mad thirst for Grogdom!

I take it the AP ammo on the AA guns would be intermixed with tracer as well? 1-2 Normal rounds, 1 AP then one Tracer?

[flamingknives]

Mr. flamingpicky would like to note the difference between an aircraft gun and an anti-aircraft (AA) gun. The aircraft mounted .50cals did have tracers and incendiary bullets in the mix - this is clearly visible in gun camera footage.