Question about LOS

[Nightkin]

Hello!

I am new with CM and have some problems with the lines of sight. I sometimes my units have a clear line between them and the enemy unit, but the LOS indicator is red. For example I try to add a picture at the end of this post. The anti tank crew should have a clear sight, there is nothing hiding the russian soldier, but the indicator shows red.

I would be gratefull if anyone could explain me some LOS rules, and sight ranges, or give a link where they are mentioned.

Thank you very much!

[realest]

I'm new too. I've seen them talk about this issue. It's been explained to me and i have somewhat of a knowledge of what is going on.

I can't see the pic at the moment. However, i've found it helpful to turn off all trees and get down to the ground level.

Turn off all your trees and look at the map from a top view. This shows me the first break in the LOS and then i get down to ground and examine it. The trees in the game i've found don't exactly mean there is a tree in that spot (to my VERY limited understanding). The tree areas seem to be alot more depth and height based. A more expierience player can tell us more.

[YankeeDog]

In the picture you posted, you're probably losing LOS due to the snow.

Precipitation (Snow, Rain, Fog) gradually degrades LOS in CM. Result is, even though you, the player can see clear across the map on your computer monitor, after a certain distance your units can't see any further due to all the little particles or water in the air. . .

[stikkypixie]

The graphics in CM are somewhat abstracted. Sometimes what's happening on screen doesn't match what's really happening. It's not because there is a clear LOS on screen that there actually is a clear LOS. It's a bit confusing I know .

Either that or maybe there is fog. Just remember the LOS tool is always right. Good luck.

[ramagel]

Just remember the LOS tool is always right. Good luck.

I read that too: I beleived it until I got shot over the crest of a hill when the LOS told me clearly I could NOT see the foxhole due to that hill crest. If the crest is between me and the foxhole, then it's between the foxhole and me (not like you being hidden in a foxhole and my not being able to see you, but you being able to see me).

Since then my gameplay has become a lot less fun as I just 'wing it' rather than taking trouble to be precise with my positioning. Dissapointing.

[realest]

I've not had any issues like that to my knowledge. I have be fired at from areas where they had a LOS and for whatever reason i didn't, but usually the movement of a meter or 2 and i got a lock.

Tis possible they are also using an area fire and got lucky?

[Nightkin]

Hello!

Thank you all for your answers!

I thought so, the the graphics are more "abstract than realistic. On my picture a some bushes to, maybe the scale is not right, and they are blocking the LOS?

The thing with the snow, fog, rain was something I forgot about. Of course they reduce sight. But imo it should be more obvious how far a unit can see and why. In my example (the picture) it is not clear if the bushes block the sight, or if it is the snow. Without these informations, it could be hard to find the right tactic in some situations. At least I think so. I dont have much game practice

Greetings...

[realest]

Night, neither do i, although it's abstract in some respects, it's a HECK of alot of fun. LOL

Also, does anyone know if sun facing and the time of day have any penalties?? North is marked on the game map. You aren't going to have the same LOS capabilities if the sun is blaring in your eyes compared to the fellow with the sun to his back.

Does the game engine utilize this??

[DavidFields]

Nightkin: If it is the snow blocking the LOS, then it will be blocked at about the same distance in all directions (the line going to black, as in your picture)

I don't believe the sun has effect on LOS.

The way the LOS is handled is, I think, a compromise (besides some game engine/coding issues): There is some uncertainty, as in real life, but there is also some ability to check exact LOS/distance--though somewhat intentionally tedious if one checked everthing.

And there is no way to check LOS between two points that are not one of your units. (As opposed to, if I remember correctly, the Close Combat series)

[Bannon DC]

Hi all.

Regarding the picture specifically --

First... because you -- the player -- see the infantry does not mean that your gun -- the playing piece -- sees it. Another friendly unit on the map might see it therefor it appear "visible" but not in LOS of all units. (Borg sighting). Possibly your gun might be just meters out of range Or maybe not...

Weather looks like a major factor limiting sight. Looks like it could be dusk, snow, fog or a combination. In really bad weather you might only see 60m or so.

What I would do in that situation... if you gun has not already been spotted, put a cover arc on it facing the infantry and when they walk about 5 or 10 more meters your gun will open up on them while moving. Then turn on the other known or previously sighted units and pummel them too. Have infantry support nearby. .... If your gun is already sighted by the enemy turn and use area fire on that advancing unit with "close enough" being good to send him to cover... turn and pummel other units and have infantry support nearby to run off those red bastards! :eek:

-- -- -- --

Originally posted by ramagel:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Just remember the LOS tool is always right. Good luck.

I read that too: I beleived it until I got shot over the crest of a hill when the LOS told me clearly I could NOT see the foxhole due to that hill crest. If the crest is between me and the foxhole, then it's between the foxhole and me (not like you being hidden in a foxhole and my not being able to see you, but you being able to see me). </font>

[Darkmath]

An example of the difference between the abstract computed LOS and what the player could see is when the battle occurs at night.

The player can see the other edge of the map, while your units can only see at most 150 metres in front of them.

As for the trees, BannonDC is correct ; don't take into account the trees which form a wood tile in the LOS calculation but rather consider a wood tile with LOS degradation property, just like a fog.

As for the LOS implication when facing the sun, it is very unlikely it is modelled, the sun is just a part of the texture which forms the background.

However, the North orientation have an implication in the artillery sheaf,following you define in the scenario editor the side from where comes the unit.

[PFMM]

Nightkin, when using the LOS tool it's worth your while to slowly draw the path to the target and if it changes colour what is at that point is causing the obscurement or obstruction.

If it changes colour for no obvious reason it is either the weather or the time of day or both.

In your case it looks to be the weather (how hard is snowing?), and are you playing at night by chance?

[z-warfare]

I'd wondered about sun direction and spotting penalties... too bad about that.

[C'Rogers]

As a tip on LOS. At the start of any game where line of sight is going to be obstructed by weather (night, fog, rain, etc) find a clear, flat, patch of ground when setting up. Position a unit and see how far your LOS line can go before turning red.

You know now the absolute farthest (roughly) that a unit will be able to see. Helps a lot in planning moves as the same sight penalties apply to the opponent.