atiff Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Hi all, Been looking around and just can't find it. Can anyone tell me what Bi'r means? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 If you are referring to the Arabic word often used to designate geographical points on the map in North Africa, it means a tomb of a Moslem saint. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Are you sure - I thought bir (bir Hacheim) was a well, while Sidi (Sidi Rezegh) was a mosque or tomb? Regards JonS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 I believe JonS is correct, as the Arabic word for a water tank (or cistern) is birkeh, or birket. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 OMG, you are both right. Major brain fart. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimorodok Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 It means a lot of things. Mostly it seems to mean "well": The ancient name of Beirut "Biruta " was derived from the semetic word "well" in Arabic "Bir" because of the abundance of wells that provided the citys water supply. from here also on this page are a number of physical feature words in Arabic, bir is listed as a "water hole or well" (like the Hebrew Beer ) In turkish, it means the number one, and Al-Bir means "Rightousness and Piety" uh...the reference your local know-it-all Zimorodok [ September 24, 2003, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: Zimorodok ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by JonS: ...Sidi (Sidi Rezegh) was a mosque or tomb?Having embarrassed myself once already in this thread, it would probably be discrete for me to keep quiet, but I can't resist opining that I think Sidi does mean saint, so Sidi Rezegh is the name of the person entombed there. All speakers of Arabic may correct or clarify. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 ah Google, how do I love thee? Let me count the ways ... ARABIC; ENGLISH Ain or Ein; Spring (fount) Akhdar; Green Bab; Mountain Pass Bir; Well Buhr; Sea Deir; Depression Derb; Trail or road Hamada: expanse of stone fragments covering the ground Jebel or Gebel; Mountain Ras; peak; summit of mountain Sidi; Saint (usually refers to tomb of named saint) Tell; artificial hillock formed by the ruins of settlements, earth and sand that have accumulated over time Thamila; water hole Wadi; river bed that is dry for a good part of the year Edits: List revised and expanded. [ September 24, 2003, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: JonS ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 LOL - farts galore today yes, IIRC, Sidi is 'saint'. I'll frantically try and cover my (windy) ass by saying that most places beginning with Sidi (Sidi Resegh, Sidi Azeiz, etc) refer to the tomb/mosque of the named saint. Thus, Sidi Resegh is ... ah ... what Michael said, the tomb of Saint Resegh. Incidentally, here is a pic of it Not terribly salubrious, is it? Regards JonS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Forgot one: Sidi is literally, "my master", used when addressing a respected male. EDIT: Blast! Missed it by that much! [ September 24, 2003, 11:25 PM: Message edited by: von Lucke ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by JonS: ...most places beginning with Sidi (Sidi Resegh, Sidi Azeiz, etc) refer to the tomb/mosque of the named saint. Thus, Sidi Resegh is ... ah ... what Michael said, the tomb of Saint Resegh.That's right. The place takes its name from the person entombed there. I was trying to think of an elegant way of saying that in my earlier post, but for some reason I am slow at getting my brain into gear tonight. I mean even slower than usual. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 My corner hot dog guy is Egyptian. I tried to ask him about this, and started with Bir. Unfortunately my arabic is horrid. He thought I was talking about beer. Got an interesting speech in broken english on the evils of alchohol, and 2 half smokes with relish and cheese. WWB 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Let me know if you guys have anymore Arabic Questions. I work with around 2,000 Arabic speakers to include a number of Ph.d from Egypt, Tunisia (sorry no Libyans)Syria, Jordan... and other diverse places with extensive geological/terrain information. Spoke briefly to one about this and he noted that place names are different in different parts of the Arab world due to dialect differences AND Arabization of existing place names from earlier cultures. Many of the names you see on Libyan maps are European guesstimates of what the Arab names really were - also many wells etc had more than one name - the Sayyid tribe might call it X and the Hajizani would call it Y...etc Hans of Arabia 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Thanks, Hans. We will surely be calling on you from time to time. I believe the tribe in northern Libya is called the Senussi, BTW, but somebody could check me on that. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by JonS: Not terribly salubrious, is it? Regards JonS Beats East London hands down, if you ask me, mate. I am not even going to start on Coventry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 As I understand it The Senussi are now a generic term for the tribes of Libya, they are made up numerous bedouin groups plus the clans that live in the cities. Over time its become a catch all term for Arab tribes living in Libya. Short history (for those who want to bail out) There an Islamic movement called the Senussi (also Sanusi or Sanusiya) brotherhood was established, a movement whose founder, Muhammad bin Ali al-Sanusi, was from Algeria. The Sanussi are descendants of the prophet through Hasan, son of Imam Ali, the fourth Caliph, by his daughter, Fatima. Hasan's grandson, Idris ibn Ali, arrived in North Africa during the 8th century AD, having failed in his revolt against the Abbasid Caliph. He established the Idrisid state at Fez, in Morocco. The family takes its name from a religious Sheikh named Sanussi who lived in Themcen during the 13th century. Their descendant Sayyid Muhammad ibn 'Ali as-Sanussi, established the Senussi Order in 1837 with strict adherence to Muslim principles, eshewing ostentation, tobacco and alchohol, and the music, dancing and gyrations practiced by the existing orders. Unable to cross Algeria because of the French occupation, he established his capital at at Jaghbub, in Cyrenaica. He built a great mosque an a university which came to rival Al-Azhar, but which was shut down on the orders of Khadafy in 1984, the graves and remains of the Sanussi family being desecrated at the same time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Emrys made a bollocks of it! wipes laugh tears away Sorry, all. Bloody Grog.* <small font>*Can't be having people saying I've gone all soft on the likes of Emrys, now, can we?<small font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Originally posted by Seanachai: AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Emrys made a bollocks of it! wipes laugh tears away Sorry, all. Bloody Grog.* <small font>*Can't be having people saying I've gone all soft on the likes of Emrys, now, can we?<small font> Well, as for you, you old doofus, you wouldn't have known the difference if it hadn't been pointed out to you. [pushes Seanachai down a long flight of stairs and giggles insanely when the old sod lands in a crumpled heap at the bottom] Can't have people thinking I've gone soft on you either. [brushes dust from hands] Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Is it me, or does that Sidi Rezegh look like the one in 'Sahara'? Posted by: Andreas Beats East London hands down, if you ask me, mate. I am not even going to start on Coventry. And I bet there are a fair few people who live/lived there who wish that your countrymen had said about 62(?) years ago. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John D Salt Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Originally posted by Zimorodok: It means a lot of things. [snips] in Arabic, bir is listed as a "water hole or well" (like the Hebrew Beer ) In turkish, it means the number one, and Al-Bir means "Rightousness and Piety" [snips]I know it's too much to expect people wanting translations done to offer either payment or context, but wouldn't it make life easier all round of they could at least specify the language they have in mind? Furrfu! All the best, John. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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