Yggdrasill Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 WARNING - THIS IS A PARTIAL SPOILER FOR THE BARBAROSSA OPERATION. * * * * * * * * * * * * Ok, so I'm playing the Russians in this 5 battle operation, where my orders are to block the German advance. He has a lot of tanks and AFVs, I don't. In the first battle I had no vehicles, and he advanced well by concentrating on a single sector of my MLR, losing just a few AFVs to ATR and ATG fire. In the second battle, I destroyed a number tanks and assault vehicles with my 45mm and 76mm guns because he was careless. I also had received as reinforcements a platoon of armored cars and a platoon of light tanks, all armed with 45mm guns. I was able to kill a few PzIIs that foolishly tried to traverse the lines, exposing themselves to flank shots. I lost half of my AFVs. All in all a good battle as my infantry chewed up his infantry pretty badly, and he made little progress. NOW HERE'S MY QUESTION: The third battle is about to begin. He has at least a dozen AFVs, including many PzIIIs, and probably will receive more as reinforcements. I am getting another platoon of ACs and a platoon of KV-2s. HOW DO I USE the KV-2s? I have no experience with these tanks. I know they're heavily armored, and have decent penetration. But they're outnumbered, slow, and will probably have poorly trained crews. They can't maneuver. Is it best just to slug it out? Will they panic and retreat? Are they vulnerable to the L42 gun? ARe they accurate? Do they have an ammo load to last a prolonged firefight? [EDIT: Just wanted to add that the terrain is fairly open, some clumps of woods, some hills, some long open spots. It is possible to engage at range.] Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. [ December 19, 2003, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: Yggdrasill ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoneion Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 When I encountered those... I was had the German side, I just said to myself... and now what the hell do I do? I prayed for an aerial bombardment otherwise there would be no hope if not to bring a couple of tank hunter teams to bear... very hard to say the least. The Kv's are horrible metal mosters but they are really slow, put them togheter and protect them with your infantry, no living tank shall pass. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoneion Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 When I encountered those... I was had the German side, I just said to myself... and now what the hell do I do? I prayed for an aerial bombardment otherwise there would be no hope if not to bring a couple of tank hunter teams to bear... very hard to say the least. The Kv's are horrible metal mosters but they are really slow, put them togheter and protect them with your infantry, no living tank shall pass. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoneion Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 [ December 19, 2003, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: Gorgoneion ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoneion Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 ops... I don't know how I did that... sorry :eek: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Carr Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Infantry support only. Only use these as tank destroyers when forced to. KV-2 reload time will be terrible unless you have crack crews which I sincerely doubt you'll have. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yggdrasill Posted December 19, 2003 Author Share Posted December 19, 2003 Originally posted by Jack Carr: Infantry support only. Only use these as tank destroyers when forced to. KV-2 reload time will be terrible unless you have crack crews which I sincerely doubt you'll have. Doesn't at all surprise me that they have a poor reload time, and i'm certain to have nothing better than a regular crew, most likely green/conscript). My question is, will they survive (not die, not panic) a shoot-out long enough to reload, and can they hit anything? Unfortunately, I think I will be forced to use them as tank destroyers, because i am defending against [elements of] an armor division. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 KV-2's are terrific for killing tanks. German tanks can't hurt them, and one hit from the 152mm gun will usually suffice to KO any tank (as long as you hit something). Whole platoons of open-topped vehicles like PzJgr-I's can be taken out with one shot if they are foolish enough to stay in too tight formation. In addition, KV tanks have radios unlike T-34's. But of course with every behemoth you will need to remember at least some basic tactics. Avoid exposing yourself to too much fire at once, you might get gun or track damage that way, and after that an inexperienced crew is likely to bail out. The best bet for your opponent is to target isolated KV's with concentrated fire and hope that the KV crew breaks or incurs gun damage before it kills his Panzers. You should make this as difficult for him as possible. Aren't there two KV-2's in a platoon? You better keep them close together. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Keyhole positioning. Don't let him get his whole horde of Panzers shooting at them at once. He can overwhelm them if he can concentrate enough fire on each in turn. His tanks fire much faster, and they will hit more often (in part due to optics, in part from more previous shots to home in, in part from shooting at a larger target). But his shots will bounce off. That doesn't mean you can ignore them all. They can still do track damage, which can immobilize you. Less often they can hit the gun and disable it. If either happens, the crew won't like additional hits. Even with a functioning gun, if the hits are coming fast enough your guys may bail out if already immobilized. And reloading takes longer with shells bouncing off the hull, occasionally scaring the crew etc. It takes long enough as it is - a shot a minute is typical, at best two. If you hit anything you will nuke it. Even near misses by HE can damage or KO a tank. The HE will also clobber infantry very effectively, even with just a few rounds fired. To prevent him from overwhelming them, you want cover on either side of them, or at least on one side. Like a position behind a house, looking out one side. Or between two clumps of trees - that you hold. Don't let his infantry get close - within 35m or so they can take you out or immobilize you. Suppliment them with additional AT weapons, that can bear on anything that sets up to fire at them. Cover approach routes out of their LOS with other AT weapons as well. Put them in a place where they can see his infantry coming up - even in cover - and nuke it with HE, to force him to fight them. If too much is gathering opposite them, reverse out of there and set up someplace else. You can also deal with the long reload time this way, by using "shoot and scoot" just into LOS to fire, then back out again for the rest of the minute. When you see it read "ready" rather than "reloading" you can advance out again. If you avoid getting them "hail fired" by a whole horde of panzers at once, they will get off shoot and scoots for 5 minutes or so, send 10 rounds downrange, and probably nuke several tanks. The Germans won't find it easy to advance onto them. Help them and keep them alive, instead of leaning too hard on them and expecting them to carry the whole fight themselves. If they have to take on the whole German force alone you will lose them. If they only need to help out, the German commander will be pulling his hair out trying to find a way to deal with them, losing tanks in the meantime. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchildstein (ii) Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 try to get the KV2s matched up on single targets... if you get exposed to a lot of guns simultaneously ... even small caliber like light aa and antitank rifle... that lucky gun or track hit can take the tank right out of the battle... i would screen forward and on the flanks with the light armor, and have yet another screen inside that with the infantry, with the kv2s at the center, and move the entire force in a formation like that ... in tank versus tank or just shelling away at infanry, your kv2 is deadly one-on-one against anything but an 88 gun or something... i was just in a battle against KV tanks; as italians a hail of 65mm mountain gun fire, solothurn atr, and 20mm aa took out a kv2... the main thing in fighting against them is to hit them with everything available; again when you have one or two in your force, isolate them 1:1 on targets.... or perhaps in your case, 2:2... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 What everyone else said. Keyhole positioning, pick the kraut tanks in small batches. Keep their infantry away from your KV's, and you pretty much have an impregnable defense line. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yggdrasill Posted December 21, 2003 Author Share Posted December 21, 2003 Thanks for all the feedback. I'll let you know how it goes in a couple of days! Have a great holiday everyone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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