Rob Murray Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 I have a favour to ask. Would some kind soul please mod a Totenkopf Tiger 1 circa Citadelle? Does't have to be CMMOS ( can do that myself). I'm asking because the Tiger has been done with LAH & DR markings and it would nice to have all 3 divisions represented. Thank you. P.S. I tried it myself & it didn't turn out so well ( bloody awful to be exact ). [ August 08, 2003, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: Rob Murray ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Rob, just did a little research. http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tigers-02.htm There three sSS-PzAbts with Tiger 1's, 101, 102, and 103. sSS-PZAbt's 101 and 102 were issued their Tigers in time for the Kursk offensive but it seems that the 103rd was initially deployed as infantry unit until Feb of 44 when it got is first Tigers. So, if I am reading the site right, I got the link above, there were no Tigers with the Totenkopf division for Kursk. MikeT 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 According to Glantz/The Battle Of Kursk, 2nd SS-Pz.Korps had 42 Tigers on July 1st 1943, with the Totenkopf Division having 15 of them, which is actually more than the Leibstandarte (13) and Das Reich (14). On July 4th operational strength returns show LAH with 12, DR with 12 and Totenkopf with 11 PzKpfw VI. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkiviadis Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Originally posted by MikeT: Rob, just did a little research. http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tigers-02.htm There three sSS-PzAbts with Tiger 1's, 101, 102, and 103. sSS-PZAbt's 101 and 102 were issued their Tigers in time for the Kursk offensive but it seems that the 103rd was initially deployed as infantry unit until Feb of 44 when it got is first Tigers. So, if I am reading the site right, I got the link above, there were no Tigers with the Totenkopf division for Kursk. MikeT However according to Tiger I on the Eastern Front by Jean Restayn, the 9th SS Pz KOMPANY of SS Pz Reg "Totenkopf" had 15 Tiger I at the start of "Zitadelle", One was lost on July 7th due to a direct hit - it was the only loss during Kursk. Also see: Kursk 43 by Zetterling & The Battle of Kursk by Glantz & House. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 After having pleasure to read "Tigers in Combat vol. I & II" (I recommend both volumes) http://www.angelraybooks.com/books/jjfpub/0010jj.htm I was surprised by following: Totenkopf division Tigers had extremely bad combat record compared to LAH and Das Reich ones. My opinion is that quality of manpower and training standard was lower in T. division (at least in armour) than in other comparable formations (LAH, Das Reich, Wiking). Cheers, M.S. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkiviadis Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Originally posted by Sardaukar: ... Totenkopf division Tigers had extremely bad combat record compared to LAH and Das Reich ones. My opinion is that quality of manpower and training standard was lower in T. division (at least in armour) than in other comparable formations (LAH, Das Reich, Wiking). Cheers, M.S. Indeed, at this time the so-called 'classical' waffen SS divisions (#s 1-3) had been bled white by the battles around Kharkov. The 3rd SS maintained a seperate personnel system from the 1st & 2nd SS. Their replacements came from concentration camp personel - need I say more. [ August 08, 2003, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: Stalins Organ ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 It would be interesting to know if the Tigers assigned to the Totenkoph during Kursk were actually part of the division of transferred from another division??!? Just to help it fill out its firepower during the operations. I had read that the GD had its own Panthers but they were in France and took part in the defense of Normandy. MikeT 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkiviadis Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Originally posted by MikeT: It would be interesting to know if the Tigers assigned to the Totenkoph during Kursk were actually part of the division of transferred from another division??!? Just to help it fill out its firepower during the operations. ... MikeT According to Restayn, the 9th Kompany was originally the 4th kompany which was formed in November of 42, the Totenkopf Pz Reg being formed in June 43. It was renamed the 9th for Kursk. It was equipted with Tiger Is for the winter Kharkov battles with a loss of 2 Tigers total for the entire Kharkov counterstroke. 3rd SS Tiger I Totals: 26 Feb - 10 Mar 42 ==> 9 total; 5 operational 31 Mar - 20 Apr 42 ==> 8 total; 5 operational 30 Apr - 10 May 42 ==> 9 total/operational figures are from Jentz: Tiger I & II Combat Tactics [ August 08, 2003, 10:31 PM: Message edited by: Stalins Organ ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Kruger Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Originally posted by Rob Murray: P.S. I tried it myself & it didn't turn out so well ( bloody awful to be exact ). Show us! Show us! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Murray Posted August 9, 2003 Author Share Posted August 9, 2003 I just checked The Battle of Kursk by Glantz & House & on July 16th 1943 Totenkopf reported 9 Tigers operational. They had several operational on previous days ( July 4th, 5, & 8th, small type, hard to read right now ). The book may be a bit of a dry read but it's a great reference. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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