Anti-Tank Gun Tactics

[Falcon988]

I recently found my entire Canadian infantry battalion held up at some bridge in Sicily after a German ATG destroyed two of our Shermans. It had a great LOS to our positions on the other side of the bridge and so I couldn't bring in the other two Shermans until it was dead. Tried blasting it with indirect fire from mortars, but the Jerries kept popping smoke and I had no luck. Eventually I popped my own smoke, concealed our positions, and brought my entire force down. When the smoke cleared the Shermans knocked out the ATG and we continued on our way.

In another scenario in 1941 my British boys were pinned down & taking heavy casualties from entrenched Italian ATG's. I dropped 25pdr artillery on their positions, blasted them from afar with Matildas, Valentines, and Crusaders. Absolutely no luck! After a Stuka destroyed one of my Valentine's and heavily damaged two, I became desperate. Charged my remaining Valentine's straight up the hill and at the Italian trenches. They came under a -lot- of fire from tanks & armored cars but just kept blasting away until all the Italian tanks firing at them were destroyed.

The ATG's stopped firing and were pinned down. So I had my tanks firing at them at close range but they STILL WOULD NOT DIE. And by then two of the tanks were hit by infantry and had to be abandoned. A third was immobilized.

So, I dunno. ATG's in CMAK are much tougher than I remember them from CMBB & BO. How do you all deal with them?

[Sirocco]

With on-map mortars. Move their spotter into a favourable position and either target the ATG or close to them. If smoke is used to obscure the ATG the chances are it has it's LOS obscured, too, rendering it useless, at least until the smoke clears. If possible I also have an FO target the ATG, but hopefully the on-map stuff will have dealt with it before the rounds start falling.

[PantherV]

well the matildas, valentines and crusaders fire 2 pounder guns which dont have any HEAT so really they are next to useless at taking thwm out from afar (if a matilda drive up to them and hose them with your mg )

[DaveR]

The thing is. Many people, including well learned historians underestimate the ATG. It's often depicted in many games as a poor second choice to a tank.

But in a defensive role the ATG was probably the finest tank killer on the field. They are small and difficult to spot, especially for a tank, they tend to engage at a range that puts them out of reach of most infantry weapons. And one tactic that seems to have been overlooked by many games is that ATG crews were not afraid to leave their gun if things got hot, then return when things cooled down some.

[Tigrii]

Originally posted by DaveR:

And one tactic that seems to have been overlooked by many games is that ATG crews were not afraid to leave their gun if things got hot, then return when things cooled down some.

I agree, in a lot of books I have read Russian ATG crews remann abandoned guns later. Why doesn't CM model remanning abandoned equipment? If the gun says "Knocked Out" then it has obviously been physically damaged by enemy fire, but if it's abandoned, isn't it just that, abandoned?

[Redwolf]

Re-manning was too difficult to implement in the engine.

If you could abandon and re-man on command it could also be abused in gamey ways, although it would probably be a realism win overall.

I also read that Russians often left a single person at the gun for the first shot. If the gun survived the first shot they would re-man it for reloading. How that plays with the fact that you usually need three shots for a hit and about the same for getting spotted I don't know. They might have done it in situations where they could zero in on a single point, and that single point would narrow down LOS to a single vehicle.

[MadGav]

How far would crews go if they leave a gun though? Given CM infantry positions are vague within at least 20m then Taking Cover and Hide could simulate this to some extent?

[mrpwase]

As for destroying ATGs - I absloutely agree with Sirocco. 60mm infantry mortars can take out almost any ATG in a single shot (well, maybe with a few ranging shots first).

[Major Rags]

An AT gun in woods/rough terrain with a Morale and Combat bonus platoon HQ in command is very difficult to KO. I had a 76 dueling with Pz IV's and a Tiger while under mortor fire that continued firing for seven turns. It took out a Stu, 2 IV's and gun damaged the Tiger and contiued firing with five casualties. I think it may have been a "fanatic unit" too.

I had another game where 3 37mm guns in rough terrain with a double morale bonus HQ took an entire FO load-out of 81mm and German tank fire at 1000 yds. After the smoke had cleared one gun to a direct hit but the others just took cover and got up to return fire.

Without the command bonuses a lone AT will run after the first couple of near misses.

[Sirocco]

I set up an ambush with two ATG's, both anchored with HQ's in a CMBB game. Through their overlapping fire they knocked out about five Pz.Kpfw IV's in front of my MLR. The HQ rallied one ATG that took a hit in it's shellhole from one of the panzers. I only lost one of the two ATG's to artillery after the engagement.

[manchildstein (ii)]

having a good hq nearby can mean the difference between destruction and survival for an atg under mortar fire....