I need tips: tank battles against superior enemy

[joesnuffy]

I was playing the scenario "B&T Early Whittman" on CMBB the other day as the Germans against the computer. It was a 30+ turn meeting engagement on a medium sized map. I had maybe 8 StugIII's, a few MG'd halftracks, an infintry company, and received 2 PanzerIVs midway through the battle. It was know that I would be significantly outnumbered.There were 5 flags scattered around, 2 major and 3 minor. Because of the size of the map and the lack of numbers on my side, I decided to go after one major flag and 2 minors in order to concentrate my forces. I spent the first 20 turns scouting a bit and approaching my objectives cautiously with proper cover and overwatch, a seemingly appropriate thing to do when not knowing where the enemy is; there were lots of trees and hiding places for enemy AT personnel. I accomplished my objectives by turn 21 without having seen the enemy! (yawn) I could have just finished out the game and accomplished a possible minor tactical victory without having fired one round, but what is the point in that; this is a game! So I started moving towards the other flags when I finally spotted a couple enemy T-34s. I figured, what the hell, I'll go after the remaining major flag (what else have I got to do). As I got closer, it turned out that I was up against about 20 to 25 tanks, mostly T-34s with a couple Mathildas and KV-1 heavies. Given my lack of time, I took some risks I wouldn't have taken in real life. I got some good kills, but took heavy casualties in the process. I ended with a minor tactical defeat. I captured 4 of the 5 flags unimpeded and got slaughtered trying to challenge the 5th. The Russians ended up with the 5th flag (a major)as well as most of my vehicles.

After this long, boring description, I am really looking for advice on tactics to win this battle and still have fun. My StugIIIs are turretless and are not good for shoot & scoot tactics and are inferior for head to head slug fest The Panzer IVs can hold their own to some degree and are good scoot and shoot tanks (fast turret, good fire power), but can be taken out with one shot from any of the enemy tanks, and I only had 2 of them. My AT personnel are limited and slow. The enemy had so many tanks, they had every angle covered to prevent any flanking attempts. My arty (50 and 80mm mortars) is practically useless against a tank-heavy force, unless I get lucky with a direct hit. My AT guys could surprise a tank or two, but would suffer the wrath of 5 tanks hunting them down once revealing their position. In real life, seeing that I am outmatched, I would have (1)waited for reinforcements or (2) dragged the fight out over a long period of time, using guerilla tactics(the stick and move approach) and attrite the enemy bit by bit over many hours and possibly days. Any suggestions :confused:

____________

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought. But World War IV will be fought with sticks and stone." -- Albert Einstein

[Redwolf]

What you need is more turns in the battle and more victory flags.

Also, the awful slow turn rate of vehicles in CMBB ruins a realistic experience of an attack or ME with StuGs. Normally you can help a little by exchanging the StuG IIIs with StuG IVs but I assume you have short-gun StuGs here and there are no short-barrel IVs

This one is obviously designed with a CMBO mind. Take it not as a battle to win but an illustration of a historic situation, like a drawing in a history book but with much more detail about OOBs and terrain.

[AC]

Probably you could have advanced faster to the first flags. I guess part of the problem is the AI who sometimes cant move it's vechiles in tight spots and ends up in a big traffic jam. This is why you didn't see the enemy untill the end. What I would have done is take the easy flags and try defend them, trying to knock out most of enemy armour and then attack with tank supported infantry. Probably wouldnt have worked since the AI had massed it's troops on 1 flag.

StuG is capable of shoot and scoot, btw, but you just have to know where the enemy is so you can come in and out from the right direction.

[joesnuffy]

I know the Stug is capable of scoot and shoot, it's just not anywhere near ideal for it. If you can come straight at your target, like coming up and over a hill, it's great. But it's terrible for peaking around the edge of a building or woods where it has to turn then fire then turn then reverse. Unless you have completely taken the target by surprise, you are likely dead meat.

[Joachim]

Originally posted by joesnuffy:

I know the Stug is capable of scoot and shoot, it's just not anywhere near ideal for it. If you can come straight at your target, like coming up and over a hill, it's great. But it's terrible for peaking around the edge of a building or woods where it has to turn then fire then turn then reverse. Unless you have completely taken the target by surprise, you are likely dead meat.

To be successful in tank battles, you need Über-Tanks or numbers (aka local odds). If the AI bunches up 25 76mm guns in a crowd, you won't stand a chance to get local odds in your favor when attacking that horde - not with borg spotting.

Let them come to you in that dense terrain. Try to guess where the AI will move from flag to flag, ambush a small part (eg the head or the tail) from different angles to ensure flank shots, then move fast to the next ambush. The AI will hunt, thus even the T34 are slower than your StuGs. ATGs do only fire when several StuGs do, too.

Use small keyholes. If possible, a small section of the AIs path should be covered by 3-4 of your guns and there should be only 2 tanks in it.

Another way is to change the path of the hunt command. Try that StuGs need only turn a little when they spot something.

Gruß

Joachim

[ February 04, 2004, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: Joachim ]

[Peterk]

Don't blame the AI. I played this one PBEM against my regular opponent eons ago and we didn't make contact until about turn 25 or so. It was a real snoozer of a scenario once the mystery of sneaking through the woods wore off.

p.