Unit firing times...

[Ezrider]

When I watch the 1 minute movie on combat missions, why do all the units have the same firing delay? In real life you would fire and maybe fire again very quickly, but in combat missions AK they all take the same time in letting off their there machine guns or rifles. I just hate it when I am looking on at a wave of enemy coming to me and my machine gunners let off rounds at a very slack rate....always the same timing.

Any reason for this or is it just part of the overall game mathematics and it doesnt really matter....Tank rounds are visually correct...........

[flamingknives]

MGs and autocannon (like the 20mm flak) increase their firing rate as the enemy gets close, and I think squad infantry do as well, but you have to be pretty close.

The 'burst' firing is an abstraction which saves on computing time.

[YankeeDog]

CM abstracts small arms fire to a degree. At ranges other then short, most infantry teams will fire between 5-7 'shots'/minute, depending on experience level, visibility, etc. As I understand it, this was done to reduce the processor load - calculating the results of every single bullet fired would be prohibitively complicated, so some degree of abstraction is necessary.

This doesn't literally mean that an MG team, for example, is only firing 7 bursts of fire over a minute of firing. IRL, an MG is probably firing somewhere in the range of 10-25 'bursts' of fire in a minute, depending on the length of each burst, the specific gun being used, etc. The number of rounds release on each trigger pull also varies a lot depending on the specific MG and how it is deployed (tripod, bipod, vehicle mounted), but you're probably looking at somewhere between 3-20 rounds.

So each CM 'shot' from an MG team really represents roughly 2-4 trigger pulls over the space of about eight seconds, and anywhere from 6 to as high as perhaps 40 actual bullets flying through the air. If you think of it this way, what you see on the screen makes more sense.

It's not a perfect system, but it works pretty well in most situations. Sometimes, unrealistic things do happen, though. For example, an MG team that has just fired a 'shot' will sometimes miss the opportunity to fire a burst at a very juicy target like an enemy squad dashing across a street. Also, for infantry squads (as opposed to MG teams), you're actually dealing with 6-12 guys, all with individual weapons of varying effectiveness. IRL, an infantry squad doesn't necessarily fire at one group of enemy at a time, but can distribute its fire over a wider group if it wants to.

Do note that starting with CMBB, the small arms modeling was tweaked, and the rate of fire does increase once the range starts to get really close, especially for MGs and infantry squads with a high proportion of automatic weapons. Sub-100m, if they're not supressed by enemy fire MGs will 'go cyclic' and start spraying out ammo very rapidly - I've seen as high as 20 'shots'/turn. When doing this, the firepower can be quite impressive, though there is a high chance of jamming, and of course you tend to run out of ammo quickly.

Cheers,

YD

[JasonC]

"unrealistic things do happen, though. For example, an MG team that has just fired a 'shot' will sometimes miss the opportunity to fire a burst at a very juicy target like an enemy squad dashing across a street."

Not unrealistic. Men can't be looking in all directions at once. Sometimes when a new target appears they are simply looking the wrong way, and if it isn't exposed for very long will simply miss the chance to fire at it. Breaking up small arms firepower into discrete shots in fact simulates this quite well, while firing every second would not.

[YankeeDog]

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I certainly agree that it is not unrealistic for an MG to occasionally miss a 'snap shot' at an enemy unit dashing across a street or other narrow lane of fire.

As it is now, though, it is eminiently predictable, and that is unrealistic - if the MG has just fired a shot at one unit, it will be 'down' for a good 8-10 seconds or so before it can fire another 'shot'. You can use this to make sure high value or fragile units make it safely across streets if you carefully time your command delay and movement paths - just send a less important unit first to draw fire, and then dash the important one across immediately afterwards. If the MG is specifically assigned a narrow cover arc along a street, it should have a good chance of getting at least a few rounds off at any unit venturing into the street. Occasionally, it might miss an opportunity because the gunner was picking his nose or looking at a pretty birdy or whatever, but not always.

Again, not saying the current model doesn't work pretty well, just saying that there are a few weaknesses that can be exploited if you really want to play that way.

Cheers,

YD

[Moon]

Originally posted by YankeeDog:

[QB]

As it is now, though, it is eminiently predictable, and that is unrealistic - if the MG has just fired a shot at one unit, it will be 'down' for a good 8-10 seconds or so before it can fire another 'shot'. You can use this to make sure high value or fragile units make it safely across streets if you carefully time your command delay and movement paths - just send a less important unit first to draw fire, and then dash the important one across immediately afterwards.QUOTE]

But... but...Capt. Miller did that in Saving Private Ryan!

I think the problem you're trying to get at is the lack of grazing fire which is not simulated in CM.

Martin

[Mr. Tittles]

Ive seen the complete opposite at least once.

A HMG went on a firing spree against one moving target (who was doing a crazy back and forth panic from the MG fire). The HMG loosed off 25-30 shots in a minute.

It would have been nice if the HMG had switched to another target. The game should prioritize target selection based on range/threat. If firing at a target, and it goes to ground, then shooting at another closer/moving target would be better.

[YankeeDog]

Originally posted by Mr. Tittles:

Ive seen the complete opposite at least once.

A HMG went on a firing spree against one moving target (who was doing a crazy back and forth panic from the MG fire). The HMG loosed off 25-30 shots in a minute.

It would have been nice if the HMG had switched to another target. The game should prioritize target selection based on range/threat. If firing at a target, and it goes to ground, then shooting at another closer/moving target would be better.

Huh. In my experience, all other things being equal, MGs usually do switch targets based on which target is more exposed (i.e., closer, or actually up an moving).

What are the details of your experience - i.e., what kind of unit was it, what was the range, and what other units were in the MG's LOS, and did you issue any manual target orders or CAs?

[Mr. Tittles]

It was close range and the target was just going back and forth (routing/freaking/whatever) and the HMG was just pouring it out. Much as I recall.