MG'S (TALKING GUNS)

[slysniper]

Well, since I have decided to get my feet wet playing a few of you, which has been great fun so far, I really like this pbem, much easier to do, if you have a real life away from your computer.

My question is. Tactics teach to set up Mg's at times in what is called a fire lane. Examble, two machine guns at the end of a city street can make that street impossible to cross. One gun fires as the other cools, when it stops, then the other gun fires. Another place this happens is when your about to be overrun, everyone in a

prepared defence should have a final fire lane to maintain, creating a crossing pattern of bullets, pretty much impossible to cross if enough people are left, shooting as much lead as possible at the time. Am I wrong or is it impossible to get this type of effect in these cm games?

I tried two heavy MG"S at the end of the road and set area targets, 300 yards out and watched 10 squads run across the road without a single wound, went back and set them on cover arch, got a handful of casualties and pinned or broke half the squads. The results were enough to say they might want to look how to model mg. fire strengths a little better

[Pzman]

Just because the MG can kill them does not mean that they will. The guys being shot at aren't going to just stand there to die just because there is cross fire after all.

[Panzer76]

You should have seen the MGs in CMBO, THEY were patethic. They have been beefed up since then (and mind you, BFC defended their MGs in CMBO also) but many, including myself find them still underpowered.

[Akula2]

I don't think CM models proper firelanes either. I believe there is some splash though. The firelane would be fun to have but I think it's knee high sporadic fire would probably result in similar results as what you got. Pinning. Pinning might be basically considered a refusal to immediately carry out the order to cross on the grounds that it's unhealthy.

IMO, and considering the 60 second turn, a handful of casualties and pinning and/or breaking 5 or 6 squads is pretty good.

[slysniper]

In real life guys, no one is crossing that road if lead is firing, you cannot run through a wall of m.g. bullets about 2-3 foot high. Try it, squads will run right through the fire and not even get hurt, I just want to point out how under-rated mg's are to real life units.

I have seen the real thing more than once, two good crews and no one will be crossing that street of death. Not unless they have had enough of this life.

[Bone_Vulture]

This brings back one of the issues that I'd like to see fixed in the next CM engine: dynamic terrain tiles. Basically, this would translate to city roads possibly having a "debris" or "rubble" status when the map is created, depending on the amount of preliminary artillery damage chosen. These tiles would offer the same amount of infantry cover and hinder vehicle movement as, say, rocky and rugged terrain. Also, normal clean roads could also be covered with debris if the nearby buildings suffer critical damage or outright collapse.

Currently, the "cover contrast" in tightly built areas is way too high. 2-story heavy buildings offer extreme cover to infantry, while the paved roads in between offer absolutely no cover at all. And yes, I've seen an infantry squad get reduced to a couple of men by a mere ambushing LMG while crossing a street.

Currently, it's way too easy to pin down infantry to isolated buildings with long range, heavy direct fire, as they can't leave the building without entering the coverless roads o' death. You've all seen footage of what cities were reduced to after bombardments and urban fighting in the eastern front; strewn furniture, carts, burned civilian vehicles on the streets. Definitely not the tidy, spotless streets of CM.

Realism upgrade time, I say.

[eyepilot]

Do buildings offer any cover as you aproach them?

I've had squads pinned down while advancing behind light 1 story buildings. this kinda bugs me. Ive also had pinned squads stop 5m short of a building and crawl away out into the open . ARGH!And yes,the buildings I am talking about are empty. :mad:

[Bone_Vulture]

Originally posted by eyepilot:

Do buildings offer any cover as you aproach them?

Only cover that they offer is the LOS they break. If an enemy squad is on the far end of the building, it might not see you until you're inside. Also, buildings quite effectively cut off the LOS for prowling vehicles. I'd still like to see vehicle movement reduced in wrecked cities, though.