large town fighting

[KursruK]

Can some experts help me with a few questions about large town fights?

I know how to use pioneer demo to blow buildings, but sometimes they don't throw it, even if it say "use explosives", and even if far enough away from friendly troops. Usually bottom floor throwing doesn't work? Not sure. Any other ideas for demo in large towns would be helpful.

Also, what positions in large heavy buildings do you find works best? maybe defensively. I try to keep my squads very deep back, so they only have a blue line of sight immediately around the building. But, good players always get into the corners of the heavy building anyway, which is the weakest blue line for my infantry. If you are too far forward in the heavy building while defending them, you can be seen and take fire. So I'm not sure what is best. Any ideas on this?

Also, is it just me or does small arms "area target" fire in buildings work very very well?

Thank you for your help.

[Redwolf]

You shouldn't try to blast your way to a town, you'll run out of demo charges too soon.

We had extensive threads about town fighting some time ago, you definitivly should look them up.

Basically, the key is to cut of enemy movement in the streets so that every pocket of resistence is isolated and then take them out piecemeal.

Mutally supporting defensive positions are still a problem, but it is rare that the defender has the luxury of maintaining them in place, usually you have to move units as the situation develops to get mutally supportive positions where they are needed. So hampering movement helps here, too. Clear fire superiority also helps, you want to quickly blast a supporting position when it hits some of your men attacking another position in the back.

[JasonC]

The reason "area fire" seems to work well in city fights is men tend to be deployed quite close together. If you pack a whole platoon into one building, it is easy for one area fire target to hurt half of them with each shot. Its main drawback is high ammo expenditure, which makes it prohibitive for most squad infantry, longer than a few minutes.

HMGs can use it extensively, however. Besides watching open streets with fire lanes, pinning area fire on a key building is a typical use of those. At range and against 10% cover this will rarely do more than keep the pin state other weapons have already achieved, but that can still be useful. You just want HE or a sniper to get you some initial "pin level", them MG area fire will maintain it.

As for demo charges, the main determinant over their use is pin state. The men have to be basically free of enemy fire to place demo charges. I've seen them do it "alerted" and occasionally when "cautious", though with a considerable delay. Pinned, forget it. The target also has to be under 30m, and area fire with the "use explosives" line displayed is the most reliable way to use them. Closer is also easier - 25m - and a brighter targeting line.

Demo charges are highly effective in urban fighting. They tend to break or pin everyone in the building hit, and usually also ** the building which often makes those inside try to leave. If the building is already damaged they can bring it down. Flame is also effective, delivered across one street. It is one of the few places where FT teams can get close enough to fire without getting killed.

High caliber direct HE is also quite effective in cities. 150mm works best, 105mm is still pretty powerful. 75mm is so-so - it can break the unit immediately aimed at but typically allows others in the building to get out the back. Mortars are much less effective in cities (they are at their best against targets in woods), but firing enough shells at the same target ("hail") can sometimes start a fire.

There are two main things to avoid in city fighting. One is getting caught in the streets. As the adage ran, the first rule in street fighting is to get out of the street. The second is mindless mashing of infantry on infantry at close range, with odds no better than even. This exchanges men off, but is horribly expensive for the amount of ground taken or of enemies KOed.

Redwolf already explained the key point about isolating targets. Often you can't fully isolate a block, but can on all sides but one. If you can threaten to get the last side you can often persuade the defenders to leave before that happens - at least if the defender knows what he is doing.

Once you have fixed a target, you want to bring one of the special block busting tools to bear, as mentioned above. If you don't have those you can also get it done with high infantry odds. The way to do that is to move infantry up to windows facing the targeted building all in the same minute, from 2-3 sides and thus from several more buildings. You have more room to deploy men than the defending building does. You put out far more firepower, pin those at the forward windows, and thus avoid most of the potential reply.

If infantry firepower or lower caliber HE drives defenders away from the front windows, it does not yet mean the building is yours. Just charging in at that point can easily get you killed, as the defenders can have LOS to the last 5m of street outside, or can overload the first unit in with their fire, pinning it instantly and thus avoiding its reply.

One way to deal with that is to use the fact that you've driven them away from "up" positions to get an FT or demo chargers close. When the front windows have been abandoned, you can easily get those into position and fire unsuppressed. If they flame or rubble the building shoot the defenders afterward, without moving. If they don't you can still rush in the following turn, expecting many of the defenders to be "down".

The other way to deal with defenders positioned deep back in a building is to use this to get on 2-3 sides first, and only go in when you can do so from opposite directions. The defenders will often pin one prong, but the other can remain unmolested and pin them in turn, freeing the first group. This works best against lone units. It is hard to fit a whole platoon in "back" positions, without letting 1-2 be hit once there are attackers on 2 sides of the building.

As for the defenders, back positions work when they are voluntary and hidden, and you know when to step forward. They don't work when they are forced on you and known. If you are isolated and forced to the back windows you can delay the attackers for another minute or two, but must expect a nasty end to it all once he has time to bring up whatever tools he requires.

You've given up on interfering with his deployments at that point. While sometimes it is worth the time and risk to sacrifice one squad this way, it is often better to get out of there and save the men. If the last street exit is cut, you can still get out by the sewers.

Indeed, if you head toward the enemy, by the time you emerge 4-5 minutes later he may well have moved on to or through the building you just vacated, leaving you the ones he was just operating from, unmolested. If it goes badly and you come up where he has people, you get a short range firefight inside a building - which is what you were looking at anyway.

[KursruK]

Thank you for the responses.

Another question please, why is it that when flamethrowers start fires in buildings, sometimes infantry can still be in the building, and sometimes not?

[Slappy]

BB has two sorts of fire, small and big.

Small fires don't consume the whole tile and produce less smoke. Big fires set the whole building off (fire through the windows and such) and make a lot of smoke.

Being in a building with a big fire is like, well, being in a big fire. Everything is in flames, the celing is on fire, you name it. It's a bad scene. You'll be lucky to get out with only a few casualties. Small fires simulate a local fire in the building. Maybe one room has some stuff on fire in it, or just an external wall is burning. You can hang out in the non flamey area and still fight fairly effectively. I would expect the occasional casualty and a morale hit. The problem, of course, is that small fires have a tendency to turn into big ones.

I tend to get the hell out as soon as the fire starts, small or big. If my opponent wants to move in and occupy a burning building, that's fine with me.

[Grimly Fiendish]

I assume the mention of sewers refers to CMBB, not CMBO??? :confused:

[Grimly Fiendish]

I assume the mention of sewers refers to CMBB, not CMBO??? :confused: