Soviet ATR's and Barbarossa

[MPK]

As the Soviet player, I love the

anti-tank rifle;it's perfect for

perferorating the light AFV's

the Germans have so many of...

But where were they in the first

few months of the Great Patriotic

War?

Most armies seem to have had

an ATR thru the 'thirties, and

the Sovs have them in abundance

from late 1941 onwards (at least

in CMBB)...was a production/logistics

hiccup the reason they are not

available in mid-1941?

[jacobs_ladder2]

Zaloga answers this question fully in "The Red Army Handbook", but it's a long explanation. Here is the short version:

By the late 30s the need for an infantry AT weapon was clear. In 1938 specifications were drawn up for a 14.5mm AP round (but not a rifle to fire it). Trials were carried out and the result adopted as the BP-32 AP-Incendiary round.

Before trials had been completed, Nikolay Rukavishnikov began work on an accompanying rifle. The result was adopted as the PTR M1939 in October 1939 and plans were made to produce 15,000 the following year. TO&Es were changed in September of the same year to provide 18 such weapons to each regiment in a rifle division.

Unfortunately, these weapons were eliminated along with much needed submachineguns by the same man. Marshall Kulik, acting on his own overestimation of both German armour and Russian infantry firepower, decided that neither the AT rifle or the submachinegun could play any useful role in modern warfare. In his opinion, the infantry had, or would soon have sufficient firepower from other sources. Unfortunately, the weapons he was counting on either did not arrive at all, arrived late or never arrived in sufficient numbers before the German invasion.

In July 1941, understandably, the Stavka hurriedly decided to reverse Kulik's decision. The PTR M1939 was revived but quickly proved too complicated for mass production. Degtaryev and Simonov, far more experienced in the art, were asked to come up with (in as little time as possible) more feasible models.

Their work initially resulted in two semi-automatic weapons. Degtaryev's belt-fed design proved too complicated and was quickly simplified to a bolt-action single-shot rifle. The semi-automatic Simonov model survived testing virtually unchanged. Both weapons were accepted in August 1941 as the PTRD (Degtaryev's model) and the PTRS (Simonov's model).

Unluckily for Simonov, quantity and speed of production was the name of the game. The PTRD, being much simpler, was able to meet the needs of the infantry in a more timely fashion. 17,688 of them were produced in 1941 and 184,800 in 1942. The PTRS, lagging behind, was not produced in significant numbers until 1942.

The PTRD weighed 35.2 lbs and required two men to carry it and its bulky 14.5mm ammunition. According to Zaloga it could pierce 35mm of armour at 100mm (angle and type of armour unspecified but most likely 30 degrees and homogenous). Of course, by 1942, this meant the weapon was only effective from the sides and rear when engaging German tanks. Still, given that no replacement was forthcoming (with the exception of LL bazookas and PIATs), the weapon was better than nothing and remained in service throughout the war.

Cheers

Paul

[jacobs_ladder2]

Lol, that got a lot longer than I wanted it to.

The short answer to your question is, basically, Marshal Kulik, overestimating German armour thickness, prevented the development of a simple, easy to mass-produce AT rifle until very late in 1941. Accordingly,the weapon did not become common until 1942.

Cheers

Paul

[MPK]

I liked the long answer

Thank you, Paul-much appreciated

"...and 184,800 in 1942"

that's more like it...

[Grach]

I believe there were also a variety of designs produced as prototypes throughout the thirties that used the 12.7x108mm cartridge. (Used by Beresin, DK34 & DShK38 HMG's as well.)

The performance of this round was deemed inadequate for use in an ATR (but acceptable in a machine-gun) and the heavier 14.5mm cartridge was developed as outlined above.

IIRC there were trials quantities of at least one of the 12.7mm rifles around that were alledgedly used during the Winter War. Anyone have any further data? Rukavinkov??

Cheers.

[Generaloberst Guderian]

I agree, they are nice weapons to have around, and quite powerful.

I know from my own experience at the local gun club, where we have a .50 M82 Semi-Automatic "Scoped Special Applications Rifle" (12.7 x 99mm for those of you that follow the metric system), that high-caliber rifles are viable against heavier targets than one would think.

In some tests that we carried out just for fun, we were able to shoot through the engine block of a Mopar Inline 6 from an older Jeep from one hundred yards or so. I'm sure Soviet troops could have disabled vehicles such as halftracks with similar results.

[jacobs_ladder2]

I should also add that Marshal Kulik was not the only one making decisions that, in retrospect, seem idiotic. The pre-war RKKA is full of examples of imcompetence and inexplicably bad judgement. The reason for the odd behaviour displayed during this period is of course the purges.

Kulik's predecessor was arrested and shot after pointing out and attempting to rectify the failings of the Soviet Army during the Winter War. Amongst these, most notably, a lack of infantry firepower (SMGs and portable AT weapons). Kulik, predictably, and hardly in isolation, decided to undo the work of the man he replaced.

Another example of this trend was the abolition of the early mech corps after the Polish campaign. Still another the repressed examination of costly Soviet tactics used at Khalkin-Gol.

Cheers

Paul