Some findings on Arty vs Tanks

[BulletRat]

Was interested to see how arty fared as an (expensive) anti-tank weapon.

Here's the tests I ran. (once only for each)

Russian 82mm(250) x 13 spotters (3250 Rounds) vs 42 assorted German tanks.

After all 3250 rounds were fired here's how the tanks fared.

34 Tanks ok

4 Abandoned/Destroyed

1 Gun Damaged

3 Immobilised

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Russian 120mm(40) x 24 spotters (960 Rounds) vs 30 assorted German tanks.

12 Tanks ok

12 Abandoned/Destroyed

2 Gun Damaged

4 Immobilised

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Russian 152mm(30) x 19 spotters (570 Rounds) vs 30 assorted German tanks.

11 Tanks ok

15 Abandoned/Destroyed

4 Gun Damaged

As rough as these tests were, I think it's pretty clear that if you want to kill a tank with your arty, make sure it's of a decent size or it'll merely be a waste.

(I know this type of scenario won't happen all that often - but something to keep in mind anyway.)

[Berlichtingen]

Originally posted by BulletRat:

As rough as these tests were, I think it's pretty clear that if you want to kill a tank with your arty, make sure it's of a decent size or it'll merely be a waste.

I disagree that it is a waste. Even against tanks with radios, it is worthwhile to button them up. Against tanks without radios, buttoning them is extremely worthwhile

[BulletRat]

True, but a spray from an MG or the constant pinging of a mortar or ATR will have the same effect, and much cheaper too.

[Berlichtingen]

May be cheaper, but when my MGs open up they run the risk of being spotted... a mortar FO can do it without running that risk

[Beta1]

Your thinking too small.

Try using a russian 203mm FO to drop dustbins on them (with the aid of a TRP). At certain dates I have seen conscript FOs available for around 100 points. This actually makes them quite reasonably priced for AT work as you only need to kill about 1.5 tanks to reach pay off (assuming as a defender you need to get 1.5x the price of the unit). And thats without any infantry kills.

If your expecting armor then one of these FOs + a large number of TRPs + some 57mm AT guns can be a real show stopper. Set the TRPs in an arc at nearest point you want the enemy to get and setup the guns with LOS to as many as possible from different angles. The FO can have LOS but as they are TRPs its not required.

When the tanks turn up you have a volley of 4 huge shells you can drop at the end of the turn you order them and you can drop another 4 every other turn from there on. The TRPs also make your guns very accurate so anything that survives the blast can be cleaned up with the AT guns. Even if you dont get a KO you are likely to kill the TCs and immobilise/gun damage the tanks freom near misses.

I have tried even large callibres but they dont seem to be any more effective than the ~200mm guns and are more expensive/have less rounds.

And of course the arty really ruins the day of any infantry that is around the tanks.

I normally throw in a couple of AT mines as well just on the off chance theres a nice choke point.

[JasonC]

Big arty with TRPs is best against armor, yes. But sometimes it pays to take them as greens to marginally increase the ROF - particularly with the biggest calibers. If rariety is off these can be quite affordable. Even when it isn't, variable rariety will sometimes give you a bargain on one type 152mm or larger, so long as you aren't picky about which one.

I suspect the test conditions favored the medium calibers to some extent, though. When there are lots of targets and lots of shells thrown at them, you get decent coverage. The biggest calibers lose a fair amount of their effect per shell, because later rounds land next to already KOed tanks.

If you count a damaged tank as half a kill and look at the points per kill in your figures, the 120s come out surprisingly well - 142 per kill with rariety off, 171 each at default rariety. That isn't a great bargain but it isn't a waste, either.

Full rariety prices for the big stuff can be as wasteful as the ineffective small stuff, with this level of saturation and thus overkill waste. Your 152s give 1 kill per 150 spent without rariety, as good as the 120s. But only 1 per 270 spent with full +80 rariety paid, as bad as the 82s (1 per 270 spent). All with regular quality, mind.

The good thing about 152s shooting with TRPs is the rounds can land every minute. The 203s are far more powerful when they land, but only the first salvo is a one-minute delay. The rest are every 2 minutes, and it is harder to hit moving tanks that way. I've seen 203s get full KOs against Tigers, though, whereas 152s tend to just damage or immobilize them even with near misses.

[BulletRat]

I think a scenario where arty vs tanks COULD be useful would be one where the russian player (f.ex) has a plat. of T-34/76s vs a Tiger in overwatch mode (Hull down, covering a valley let's say).

You can't sneak close enough with your inf. as any smart player will have such a prime asset well protected with his own and you really DON'T want to engage a hull-down Tiger at long range, even with 3vs1 odds.

Arty will either force him to move or, if lucky, immobilise or kill him.

At the very least it'll make him to button up and reduce spotting ability.

Don't forget that some light arty can be useful for laying smoke too...

[SuperBadAssSweetDaddyMayhugh]

My experience with arty against tanks has not been too good. Most of the time, it was in an engagement where I was holding a small area against a horde of Germans/Russians, and i used the arty against them as a last resort. I did manage to blow up a T-34/85 once with a DIRECT hit. Blew up quite nicely. But, that is a rarity. If you got nothing else, use it. But if its a choice between firing on a couple tanks, or that nice battalion of infantry slowly marching across the plain.....