Michael Emrys Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Originally posted by MRoadster: Also, I wonder how much time we would lose off the release of CMX2 by diverting some effort to sustaining the longevity of CMBB. A week? Two weeks? Three weeks? One month?If you want a guess, I'd say six months. And the only reason it wouldn't be longer is that BFC would draw a line and say "we absolutely are not going to pour more time down that black hole", not because the game had achieved perfection or even buglessness. The point that BFC has stated more than once, but you guys don't seem to want to hear, is that they believe that the problems with the game that have been cited here among others can be better addressed with the new engine. Now, that may or may not be entirely true, but until it's been proven to be definitively false I'm willing to take their word for it. And finally, our little debate doesn't amount to a hill of beans, because BFC has told us what they are planning to do and they seem eager to get on with it and are not going to be swayed by the opinions expressed here. I think the good ideas appearing in this thread can be most effectively couched as "What I'd like to see in CM4 (i.e., the fourth game in the series)." Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Murray Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Hasn't this subject been done to death already? I don't have CMAK ( I may wait 'til the final patch is released then buy it ) but it seems to me that people were b*tching about CMBO not being up to CMBB standards when 'BB came out. As was stated earlier, it isn't going to happen. CMBB is still miles ahead of some more recent games ( ie. Blitzkrieg ) in terms of realism & some of the mods people have done; graphics too. My only real beef with the CM series is the lack of basic winter uniform/vehicle textures in the base game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Carr Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Originally posted by rune: Jack, Nothing has been announced about CMX2. It is still being discussed internally. Rune Whew! I got a little worried there for a second. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Carr Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: ... And finally, our little debate doesn't amount to a hill of beans, because BFC has told us what they are planning to do and they seem eager to get on with it and are not going to be swayed by the opinions expressed here...[/QB]Wouldn't disagree with ya on that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRoadster Posted February 5, 2004 Author Share Posted February 5, 2004 Originally posted by Rob Murray: Hasn't this subject been done to death already? I usually don't check on the forums religiously, but I don't think this particular subject has been done to death. I just did a search in the CMBB forum using the terms "patch" and "upgrade" and not much came back discussing upgrading CMBB to CMAK standards, at least not since last fall. Of course CMBO had the same outcry when CMBB came out. But the game adjustments from CMBO to CMBB were major compared to CMAK/CMBB. With the reintroduction of western forces in CMAK, a total CMBO work-over isn't too far fetched. I'm already seeing CMBO scenarios retooled in the CMAK engine. Just another reason I can't see why CMBB can't be brought "up-to-speed" quickly. Why would the developers ignore us? We are the staunch supporters, the players, the history aficionados, and in the end, the cash cow that funds these games. Sure, give us CMX2 as soon as possible. If the core audience desires the upgrades why not keep us satisfied in the meantime while we await CMX2 and even more ready to go out and order CMX2 as soon as the order page goes up? One underlying premise I have been sensing here is that the developers have, come hell or high-water, decided that CMBB is not to be supported any further. If CMBB is basically a "dead" program with no future developer support, then why not let the end-user tweak to his or her heart's content? Why not just open-up the source code? I don't program, so I wouldn't know where to start. But there is a lot of knowledge and talent in this community. Just look at what the Falcon 4.0 community has been able to do to keep that product vibrant and ever-evolving. Sure, there probably would be tons of iterations of CMBB, but over time, ala Falcon, a generally accepted version would emerge. I could very well be mistaken on this idea, but it is intriguing... Anyway, the devs could just nip this in the bud by issuing a patch for CMBB when CMAK reaches its upgrade cycle conclusion, if it hasn't already done so. Just throwing another 2 cents into the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Hi, Mom! Not that this thread is OT, it is probably about to be OBE (overcome by events.) I'll play the existing games until the next engine comes out...the sooner, the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Oh for crying out loud, leave CMBB alone, it's done. Those minor changes aren't that minor to implement. If you want dust go play CMAK that's what it's for, but don't make BFC make another patch for CMBB. CMII is the ultimate patch for CM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Tittles Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 I think people are confused. Patch equals work for BTS for nothing. Product equals work for money. I would pay for CMBB++. To develop CMAK from CMBB had to be harder than to retro CMBB with CMAK tech. lets say they took on another coder for 3 months to do it. Would it not be worth a contract with him/her to sell another 5000-10000 CMBB++ for 30+ a pop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 It's reasonable for every one to have a specific feature or enhancement (call it pet peeve if you will) about something in one game which they wished was in another. We understand that, and if granted unlimited money, time and resources to do whatever we wanted there would be no debate on this matter. Every game would simply be patched to encorporate all the new features of the latest, in this case CMAK. Sadly, this is the real world, and we do have limitations of time, resources, marketing, advertisement, payroll, operating costs and all the other little *issues* that seem to keep life from getting too boring. As it has been said before, our current short term focus is with CMAK (as seen with the latest patch) and our long term strategic focus is fixed on the new CMX2 engine. The current CM engine, a milestone in wargaming to be sure, is clunkly, overly complicated incredibly time consuming to work with and amazingly resistent to change. Even the smallest additions in CMAK took months to implement and that is time that we currently don't have to retrofit our past games. Game design is an evolutionary process and while I totally understand peoples wish for the past to be reincarnated into the present, its simply not that easy. One misconception I see a lot is that people like to focus on something specific in the game and consider it as a stand alone *feature* that can be ripped out of one or simply *inserted* into another. Again, it is not that easy espically considering the core level changes between each game. The easiest way to say this as that CMBO, CMBB and CMAK are all three DIFFERENT games and its much easier to PLAN to include something to a new code base than to retrofit old code to accomodate those same improvements. So, lets put a close to this issue for the time being. As it stands right now, we are not planning to upgrade either CMBO or CMBB to CMAK's code level via new patches. We can't stress enough though how much the development of a new engine, CMX2, will render these types of discussions totally irrelevant. That's all for now. Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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