Tank Ace Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 In a 1000 pt game that was from dec 44 and up here are they things you can get(all regulars) that add up exactly to 1000 and is a very good buy: 1 Sherman Jumbo 76 2 M10 TDs 1 M36 Jackson 1 Rifle Platoon 2 Chaffees 4 Bazookas 3 M1919 MMGs 1 50 Cal HMG These units do best in a defensive role. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freyland Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Though I fully respect the anti-infantry potential of most of those units, your collection seems to be rather weak at defending against a large onslaught of flesh and blood. Certainly the very large guns on the tanks can hurt infantry, but your firepower is concentrated, whilst the targets can scatter while advancing. Finally, if the enemy gets to VL's that have some cover from long range bombardment, you don't have any real way to flush them out with just one platoon of infantry. Just my 2 gp. Jonathan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Ace Posted August 3, 2003 Author Share Posted August 3, 2003 Actually ive stopped a whole inf assualt with just tanks, the MGs make it possible, once enemy armor is destroyed and inf pushed back i send 3 tanks out after inf , surround them from a distance and destory them. it's all fun a games, i usually send third tank to rear to stop enemy's retreat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungalley Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 it seems a little too heavy on machines don't you think? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike8g Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Well, unless playing on open ground, this tank force will certainly be defeated badly. What about a test game ? Axis attack vs. Allied defense, 1000 points, unrestricted force, human pic, Mar 45, all other options set to default. My email address is in my profile Marcus [ August 03, 2003, 05:34 AM: Message edited by: mike8g ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freyland Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Pulls up a chair 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 If I was unsporting .... 2 King Tigers 2 Hetzers and spare change in infantry if the terrain is bumpy and wooded .... no difference! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Ace Posted August 3, 2003 Author Share Posted August 3, 2003 it seems a little too heavy on machines don't you think? no infantry support tanks, not the other way around. Well, unless playing on open ground, this tank force will certainly be defeated badly. I won against 3 panthers and about 4 Jagpnz IV and 1 company of infantry. What about a test game ? Axis attack vs. Allied defense, 1000 points, unrestricted force, human pic, Mar 45, all other options set to default sure 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxx Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 i like these pissing contest....really fun to read what folks have come up with as a winning combination. i just played a game in cmbb armor only against a pbem... and with overlapping arcs in one, my su-100 killed 1 x stug, 1 x nashorn and 3 panthers! Hoooo!!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beta1 Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 OK what happens if your opponent goes asymetric on you and buys the maximum number of infantry and no armor. Your in dec 44 so most german infantry squads will be carrying 2 panzerfaust 100s, throw in a smattering of shrecks and a couple of off map 81mm observers and you could be in trouble. The amount of smoke you could drop would be enough to make life very hard for your tanks, you bazzookas and TDs are pretty useless without targets and the your infantry would have a very hard time against a couple of companies of automatic heavy axis infantry 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cogust Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Waaaaay too heavy on the tanks. Infantry is the real killer in CMBO and this force lack any credible way to beat an infantry heavy forces, NO artillery and very little infantry. A pair of Panzer IV/70s and a bucketload of infantry with some artillery support would more than likely carry the day against this force. THe thing here is to swamp the defending force with infantry supported by artillery and force the defender to commit his tanks before you have committed yours. That way it will be fairly easy to kill off the American tanks while they're busy warding off 2-3 companies of German infantry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 CMBO infantry rule. A battalion of volks + 81mm FO (smoke) would simply overrun you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Ace Posted August 4, 2003 Author Share Posted August 4, 2003 OK what happens if your opponent goes asymetric on you and buys the maximum number of infantry and no armor. Tanks have MGs and cannons so it's not hard i've done it, so some may get thru with panzerfausts but all u do is back up until u are near ur platoon of infantry and open them up u seem to forget u have a "hiding" key on ur tool bar thing. Waaaaay too heavy on the tanks. Infantry is the real killer in CMBO and this force lack any credible way to beat an infantry heavy forces, NO artillery and very little infantry. Once again infantry support tanks,i win like this so it has worked for me, I just did it again last night against hetzers and a tiger and knocked them all out. A pair of Panzer IV/70s and a bucketload of infantry with some artillery support would more than likely carry the day against this force posted by tank ACE I won against 3 panthers and about 4 Jagpnz IV and 1 company of infantry. It works for me u don't have to fire at the enemy with ur MGs and Infantry when u see him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cogust Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Originally posted by TANK ACE: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Waaaaay too heavy on the tanks. Infantry is the real killer in CMBO and this force lack any credible way to beat an infantry heavy forces, NO artillery and very little infantry. Once again infantry support tanks,i win like this so it has worked for me, I just did it again last night against hetzers and a tiger and knocked them all out.</font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffin 'Enry Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Pulls up chair & pops tin of beer..... We are going to see progress reports on the game aren't we? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike8g Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 As you've asked for.. Let me first second Adam L's opinion: one game doesn't prove much, it maybe shows a direction. Unit selection in CMBO is something like playing rock, scissors and paper. Depending on the choices of your opponent, your selection will either lead to glory or fail utterly. Though unit selection is only one part of the game, playing it is the other. Adam L. is right here, too. Even a "sure-win" force might run out of luck or get outplayed by the opponent player's forces. My first idea for this game was: Hey, buy all-infantry and "Swamp" him down ! The second idea was to get a Jagdtiger / Kingtiger combo plus infantry. But that was way too easy, so I decided against it and bought a force of some smaller Axis tanks, infantry, well, more infantry, Panzerschreck teams and an artillery spotter. The game started with my infantry moving towards his positions. Two Allied tank destroyers were spotted immediately, one was hidden behind a house while the second one was in clear LOS to one of my tanks. Before it could turn around and return fire, a shell from my tank knocked it out. Scratch on M-10 ! Marcus [ August 04, 2003, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: mike8g ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Don't go for FOs, those are anti infantry. He has a wide mix of vehicles, but only the jumbo is armored and they aren't too expensive. He has mostly 76mm shooters. His limited infantry and teams are made for range, so don't take just SMGs; you will dominate in close just from numbers. No point in teams, you just want more squad infantry than he can handle plus plenty of AT ability. I'd start with - 3 Jgd-70 3 SS Motorized Pz Gdr platoons 6 panzerschrecks (half veteran) If you prefer quantity to quality and aren't too afraid of the lone Jumbo, you could try instead 4-5 Hetzers 3 SS Mot Pz Gdr 8-12 schrecks A compromise variant would be 1 Jgd-70 or even Jgdpanther - to stalk the Jumbo - with 3 Hezters, leaving enough for 7-9 schrecks. Infantry walks forward to covered areas, bringing up the schrecks into any safe spot reached. There job is to gradually reduce the safe area for his armor. Your TDs cross keyhole lines to cut up his repositioning options with his armor. You have to watch the Jumbo close (because it bounces some) and the Jackson from hiding (because it kills). If you use the angles right, he should often need to get close to your infantry to get shots on your armor. Your infantry should run over his easily, as long as his armor doesn't get to dump in all its HE forever. Just break contact and wait if under HE fire, until you bring up an AT shooter of your own to kill or make him move. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Originally posted by JasonC: Don't go for FOs, those are anti infantry. Not to speak for mike8g, but I'd imaginge he got the FO mainly for smoke support. Smoke his tanks out and you accomplish 2 things. 1) His tanks can't see to shoot you from long range. 2) His tanks can't see you as well close assaulting with shreck teams from several directions. Heck, I'd even consider using 2 mortar FOs for both smoke and a little HE to force him to button up/pin his infantry support. IIRC, open top TDs are pretty juicy targets for arty, too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike8g Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 The second M-10 was eliminated by an Axis Panzerschreck team. The 'schreck used up all of its ammo for this kill. Gladfully the M-10 only responded with smoke shells... The remaining US tanks, their infantry platoon and their MG positions have been located. My infantry is closing in... Looks like as if this will turn into an Alamo-style battle soon. Own losses so far: 23 men among all squads Marcus [ August 04, 2003, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: mike8g ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Ace Posted August 4, 2003 Author Share Posted August 4, 2003 Looks like as if this will turn into an Alamo-style battle soon. Not really, you shall see what jokers i have in my deck 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Ace Posted August 4, 2003 Author Share Posted August 4, 2003 the only reason that it is working so far is that you do not fight conservatively like the computer, which is smart, since i defeat the comp AI more than 95% of the time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike8g Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Three M1919 MMG and three Bazooka teams eliminated - one Chaffee downed by a PzFaust. The left US flank has collapsed, shifting own units from there to support the attack on the US Rifle platoon. Sherman Jumbo is immobilized and smoked by mortar fire, 3 Hetzers start encircling maneuvers. Marcus [ August 04, 2003, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: mike8g ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Ace Posted August 5, 2003 Author Share Posted August 5, 2003 even though defeat is inevitable there was no way i could win, you knew the exact size and strength of my force, so this isn't a test if i can win, but rather how long i can survive, it's one giant death trap. care for another when this game ends? [ August 04, 2003, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: TANK ACE ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Ace Posted August 5, 2003 Author Share Posted August 5, 2003 In a 1000 pt game that was from dec 44 and up here are they things you can get(all regulars) that add up exactly to 1000 and is a very good buy: 1 Sherman Jumbo 76 2 M10 TDs 1 M36 Jackson 1 Rifle Platoon 2 Chaffees 4 Bazookas 3 M1919 MMGs 1 50 Cal HMG These units do best in a defensive role . These units do best in a defensive role against an armored force. [ August 04, 2003, 06:11 PM: Message edited by: TANK ACE ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike8g Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 All US tanks destroyed. Enemy platoon is almost routed. Auto-surrender is expected the next turns. As mentioned above, this (fun) game doesn't prove anything. With the knowledge of his force composition, I could use a selection and game speed his tanks couln't cope with. Defeat was inevitable. Without that knowledge, Axis force selection and game speed might have been considerably different. One lesson learned: Game results vs. the AI cannot be compared with results against human players. TankAce's force selection is a good force in an armor or all-armor battle but has it's weaknesses against infantry. According to his test results, this force has been victorious against any oppostion in a battle vs. the AI. Thanks for the game, TankAce. Sure up for another Marcus [ August 04, 2003, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: mike8g ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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