Armour v Infantry tough in CMBB

[Cpl Steiner]

Recently I've been playing the same sort of game over and over and have been getting trashed by the AI every time. As the Axis I've been picking an SS mechanized force in an Armoured Assault against an all-infantry Allied defender. Every time I have had virtually all my armour wiped out by masses upon masses of AT guns, including some in pillboxes.

Of all the quick battle games I've played, I think this is the toughest. I thought making the defender all-infantry would make things easier for an armoured assault force, but if anything it is ten times harder because of the number of AT guns the defender gets.

I was just wondering if other CMBB players had experienced this, and if they had any solutions?

[xerxes]

The AI handles guns and infantry pretty well except if you take a flag and the AI "counterattacks". (gets slaughtered) It handles guns better than tanks so it's not surprising you're having a tough go of it.

I've found a tank-free force can defend quite well. I rarely play QBs but when I'm defending I'll often skip the tanks.

The key is to work on your infantry attack tactics. It's the infantry that needs to spot the defending guns. Finding guns by getting tanks knocked out doesn't work too well.

[Redwolf]

Steiner, are you speaking of a mechanized force as in "nothing from the armor unit selection"?

[JasonC]

If you are getting knocked out by the guns inside Russian pillboxes, then the problem is definitely in your play. Those are quite weak guns. You just have to avoid giving them a flank, or presenting very thin armor to them. Anything with a 50mm front will knock them out reliably without danger at 500m, getting a firing slit penetration is a couple of minutes.

Attacking a gun defense does require proper tactics. It is the hidden guns that are hard, not the ones you can see almost immediately in their big bunkers.

The first relationship to understand is spotting range vs. caliber, and caliber vs. armor thickness. The light guns you can't see, even when they are firing, until you get within 400-500 yards. (That is for 45mm. For ATRs, it is more like 200m when facing them and 100m when not). But they can only kill light armor, or other types with flank angles. The bigger stuff can hurt medium tanks. But can be spotted the instant they open fire.

Then you have to kill the guns you find. Tank HE does it, 50mm and upward. Obviously if the gun can hurt you, you want many shooters at once or no engagement. You have the mobility to create many on fews, he doesn't.

A cheaper way is to kill them "assymmetrically" with on map 81mm mortars, from outside of LOS. Light FOs aren't as efficient but can be substituted. Snipers can pin guns rapidly, particular if the sniper quality is high. HMGs can keep a pin achieved by other means, preventing rally. Under 200m, they can pin the gun crew, particularly if you use a pair of them.

All those methods make it valuable to assist tanks with heavy weapons overwatch groups, on foot. These operate 300-500m from their expected targets, sticking to cover naturally. The German panzergrenadier company is well set up to form those, around its weapons platoon.

Use the weapons HQ and the company HQ (or a platoon HQ, with the company leading that platoon's men if you like). Give each 2xHMG, 1x81mm. Add snipers and FOs (preferably radio ones, to be able to ride). 2 SPWs can help them reposition more rapidly (the mortars don't fit on a tank deck, the rest do). A StuG or StuH is a fine addition to one of these groups, in place of or in addition to one of the SPWs, if you are that rich.

The role of the regular infantry then becomes scouting to get eyes close enough for full IDs of guns (and HMGs) when they fire, and clearing the areas of cover the heavy weapons groups plan to set up in.

If he tries to stop the infantry scouts with HMG and light gun fire, tanks can help silence those. But do not rush them forward. Only use 1 if that is all you need, and only move it as far as needed to "keyhole" to 1 shooter at a time, one that is holding the infantry up.

Once you think you have infantry scouts 150-200 yards from his positions, you can maneuver the heavy weapons forward to their final overwatch positions, 1 body of cover farther back. Then they are all set, ready to knock out any gun the moment it opens fire.

*Then* pick a spot and overload it with your tanks. Preferably along a low route, for limited LOS. You want to take on only a piece of his overall force. If he fires, everybody replies and knocks out those guns. Then you crawl forward some more.

If he doesn't fire, you press. Keep infantry platoons on the flanks of the tanks, one body of cover farther out, to spot anything you are unknowingly bypassing. Pick your route through his position and eat whatever opens fire along it.

It takes a little time to set up. But you needn't let him know which way you plan to go until the main body of the tanks moves up. Before then, just keep them well back in full defilade.

If instead you just lead with the tanks, charge forward into open areas everyone and his brother can see, then his heavy stuff will all get kills and his light stuff will remain mere sound contacts while firing at will, and from so many directions that some will get flank shots. As the saying goes, "that way lies sorrow."

[JasonC]

Redwolf - he said mechanized force (equals parent unit type) in an *armor assault* (means armor force type, assault odds).

[Cpl Steiner]

Thanks for replying everyone, and sorry for the delay in getting back to this post.

JasonC, you are right that I meant mechanized parent unit but armour force mix. Thanks also for your in-depth analysis of the problem.

I have been using a couple of half-tracks and an armoured car to scout ahead, with a sharpshooter and either a mortar or FO in each half-track. However, once they spot the guns I've pretty much been bringing up the tanks immediately to try to put them out of action. What usually happens then is that guns I hadn't spotted open up and the whole thing degenerates into a tank on gun shooting match.

I have noted your suggestion about using HMGs to suppress guns. This is quite strange because one of my tactical decisions was specifically to leave out HMGs. I thought they'd slow everyone down, so I opted for LMGs instead. Maybe I've given up too much heavy firepower?

One of the problems is that I don't really know how much time I should give myself. Perhaps I am trying to rush things more than would happen in real live. I typically set the map size to small and number of turns to 35 variable but I always seem to run out of time.

Another thing I may be doing wrong is making the battlefield conditions too tough. I typically leave everything set to "no damage", "mid-day" and "clear". In real life, I doubt whether an assault would be ordered without some artillary bombardment of the enemy positions prior to the advance. If I gave the map some level of damage (to give the infantry some craters to hide in), gave the defender some light casualties, and set the weather and timing to "overcast" and "dawn", I am wondering if this would give me a better chance without sounding too much like cheating?

[Slappy]

Actually, this would probably hurt you far more. The damage on damaged maps tends to center around the objectives giving the defender craters to hide in. Similarly, overcast and dawn will make your spotting of the guns much harder than the guns spotting of you. Enlarging the map size may well give you more tactial options (read flanking) against pillboxes.

If at all possible, you want to engage spotted guns with your unspotted HMGs and onboard mortars. You then want to engage his dismounted infantry with your armor. It's a rock paper scissors type of thing.

[Redwolf]

Pre-battle casaulties are usually in favour of the defender. Remember the points for units are still the same so you get depleted unit, but more units.

The reason that defenders with casulties are more effective is reduced crews. A gun is, statictically speaking, a lot cheaper with casulties but practically as effective until it gets under fire. But for guns the phase before they get under fire is pretty much decisive and it doesn't make a huge difference whether they die a little earlier or not.

Same applies to on-board mortars, reduced crews would only make them lose ammo on the move, but if they don't move it's no disadvantage, as long as they are kept out of fire.

Now, as the attacker you can turn the whole thing around. If you know the defender is not at full strength, then a number of tactics become more effective:

- pre-planned bombardements have a much higher chance to knock crew-served weapons out

- supressive fire, especially the HMG-after-sharpshooter sequence Jason mentioned has more chance of success

- squads have less men, less morale and might have losts Panzerhausts. They are substancially less dangerous when a tank gets too close

- artillery spotters may arrive with one man, the usual knocking down of spotting positions has higher chances to remove the battery from the game.

[laxx]

From the original post, if it is against Anti-tank assets like pillboxes, ATGs and trenched troops. It would be quite logical that motars and arty are the rule of the day.