Tank Rush a viable tactic?

[History Buff]

Was playing a certain scenario with lots of Russian tanks. T-34's and KV's mostly. Would you think that rushing known AT Gun positions is a viable tactic. As in fast move straight at the target to within 50-100 metres? I did it a number of times and not only was I not hit as I came in but when I got closer the enemy crew bailed at the sight of two platoons of KV's.

Thoughts? Was I just lucky?

[SpineRipper]

Just some thoughts from playing the game so far. No everytime I have tried the rush, I get creamed, and the 1.02 bug can really make for a bad day for rushing tanks. They can hit you but if thier behind even a slight hill or rise in the terrain you toast. Another prohblem with rushing is that you dont know what else is out thier, you could be running right into a trap. But if you got a good recon of the area it would depend on how manny tanks you had, and the place meant of the gun, if it is behind a slight rise than you might want to rush behind the gun to take it out.

I personnaly stay away from the charge attack with tanks unless I have no other choice.

Just my 2 cents.

[offtaskagain]

Early in the war Russian players can rush ATGs with KVs and T-34s pretty easily. Also in '43 Tigers can usually pull it off with low risk.

[Bone_Vulture]

AT guns lighter than 75mm can be rushed, but I was thinking more of bold tank assaults in general. Moving a mass of tanks in uncharted territory (without forward recon) is highly risky, as there's a chance of getting ambushed by infantry, receiving flank shots from AT guns or running into mines.

But the payoff is also handsome: if you manage to bypass the defense line of your enemy, his tactics will be on the fritz! Both his tanks and infantry will now be under crossfire, a huge advantage for you.

[Sergei]

I once tried rushing a Tiger platoon with two companies of T-34/76's. You can still find the wrecks if you go wandering around in southern Russia.

It might work with two companies of Tiger's against a platoon of T-34's, though...

[Bone_Vulture]

Originally posted by Sergei:

I once tried rushing a Tiger platoon with two companies of T-34/76's.

You'll need good weather conditions and a lot of cover in the form of buildings, trees and hills if you wish to attempt flanking Tigers. But since the Tigers have a 76.2mm-proof side armor, I wouldn't try it without tungsten rounds.

[tracer]

I agree, try rushing a platoon of Tigers with a platoon of SU-152s, even when the SUs have the advantage it's dinner time for the Tigers.

[MikeyD]

One aspect of the 'rush' sounds pretty good, that is when an anti-tank gun appears it'll be spotted by all your armor at once and delt with. There's nothing worse that attacking an anti-tank gun piecemeal and losing your tanks one-at-a-time. I've found broad front advances to work sometimes (depending on the terrain of course).

Rushing Tigers with T34-76s has its own particular problem, specifically that there's no guarantee you're going to inflict any damage even if you get to where you were rushing to!

[ March 26, 2003, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: MikeyD ]

[Bone_Vulture]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

One aspect of the 'rush' sounds pretty good, that is when an anti-tank gun appears it'll be spotted by all your armor at once and delt with. There's nothing worse that attacking an anti-tank gun piecemeal and losing your tanks one-at-a-time. I've found broad front advances to work sometimes (depending on the terrain of course).

That's why it is important to trigger the AT gun ambush when the tanks are A) far away from cover, and facing away from the gun.

A certain Finnish CM player who frequents this forum now and then might remember the time when I snuffed his two T-34's and an ISU-152 within a single turn with my 88...

[Jack Ryan]

learn from history - the british armour in the early years of the war used calvery style tatics in situcations like u descibed most often they got cremaed

[walpurgis nacht]

"rushing" anything with the t-34/76 in numbers is extremely effective.

T-34/76 sprays accurate MG fire while moving "fast", so when used in numbers, they can rush an ATG and quickly suppress it. Even if an ATG is hidden and opens up mid-move, the t-34 MG finds and suppresses quickly + t-34 moves really fast and is difficult to hit while doing so.

Throw some infantry on the tanks and prepare a "tankodesanti" style attack from the tanks. If the terrain is right to cover the t-34 movement enough, you've got yourself the only "blitzkrieg" available in CMBB.

[CombinedArms]

Originally posted by Walpurgis Night:

"rushing" anything with the t-34/76 in numbers is extremely effective.

How about rushing a brace of hulldown Tigers/Panthers/PzIVFF+/Stugs, waiting in ambush? A bunch of dug in and as yet undiscovered Pak40s? A rubbled urban center full of panzerschrecks?

Personally, I'd rather stand off in hulldown position and blast targets unearthed by my infantry, waiting until the area I'm rushing is well scouted before moving forward. I would use a tank rush early in an ME to gain vital ground or late in an attack on a position I knew had few remaining anti-armor threats, when I wanted to close to use canister, but I don't regard it as a favored middlegame tactic against an entrenched and unexplored position.

[walpurgis nacht]

Originally posted by CombinedArms:

I can think of about 30 more circumstances that would make it a poor idea. It is a good idea under certain circumstances only. If you're up against tigers, panthers, and schreks, you're not likely depending on the t34/76 as your staple tank anyway. One thing is absolutly sure . . . to be conservative with the t-34/76 is a total waste of its advantages.

As for stugs .... you're not going to "rush" on open steppe where 3 stugs have clear LOS for 1500 meters(common sense?). Obviously you plan your route accordingly, so that if something opens up on you, it can only come from one direction, and the proximity is relatively close. t-34/76 MGs in hordes, suppress pak40(s) within seconds if range is reasonably close.

As for pak40s and other ATGs . . . .without TRPs, it is extremely unlikely a pak40 will hit a fast moving t34 on the first shot, and 1 shot from the pak40 and you can spot him (because you prepared a spotter with binoculars ahead of time to watch), and then your t-34/76 MGs will be on him immediatly. In addition, the pak40 will probably have to turn to "keep up with you", making it even more difficult for him to hit you. If in addition you properly prepare the "rush" with independent supporting MG fire and other overwatch with cover arcs, you just created a mean blitzkrieg.

I'm not saying "rush" on turn 1 here. I'm talking about after responsible scouting . . . . a very carefully laid plan with every bump in the "fast" path of the t-34 noted. Plan it all well ahead of time. Make all t-34/76 turns "behind enemy lines" at the bottom of the tiny dips in the terrain, or behind bits of cover so they are not vulnerable when they have to slow down to turn. Give the t-34's a final objective point on their "rush", and then continue all their paths on in all different, erradic directions well beyond. Your intention is not to necessarly follow them through unless what you "learn" on your rush makes them useful . . . and they often do become useful (i.e. you meet previously unnoticed enemy armor and need immediate flanking manuevers to kill). Remember you can always change commands from "fast" to "hunt" from turn to turn. You can also *pull* the waypoints and adjust little things along the way as you make discoveries. Popping in and out of enemy ATG LOS is not exceptionally dangerous for the T-34 while moving "fast". T-34/76 is cheap, so do everything in "hordes". And on, and on. You just have to know what you're doing.

Try this tactic! You'll like it.

[ March 26, 2003, 10:21 PM: Message edited by: Walpurgis Night ]