Is this Normal

[SpineRipper]

Im playing the battle Danube Blues

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Ok in thid battle when the fighting start's I have 4 tigers, vet crew's with good optic's. I allso have 3 Stug3 with same.

I set this tanks up by hooking a left right off the bridge and heading up the road to the pound.

I'm able to get them all lined up as the first T-34 comes out from behind a building at 433 meters.

All tank's except for one stug3 have los and fire. All miss with first round, T-34 knocks out tiger with 1 shot. All remaining tanks fire and knock out T-34, who also knocks out a stug as he dies.

2 more T-34 come into sight, one around each corner of a building at 430 meters, all tanks have los on one at least one of the T-34's. After my tanks fire 2 to 3 rounds apiece, 2 T-34's down, and 2 Tigers KOed.

At this point my remaining tiger and the 2 stugs are quickly over ran by 6 T-34's.

Is this kind of performance normal for german tanks va Russian tanks. I checked the armour pen chart's and at the range all my tanks were listed as having an OK to good chance of taking out the T-34.

Almost all my tanks missed with thier first shot's and the one's that did, scored penatration's with no effect. I was watching the fight from voom level 2.

[Soddball]

Originally posted by SpineRipper:

Im playing the battle Danube Blues

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Ok in thid battle when the fighting start's I have 4 tigers, vet crew's with good optic's. I allso have 3 Stug3 with same.

I set this tanks up by hooking a left right off the bridge and heading up the road to the pound.

I'm able to get them all lined up as the first T-34 comes out from behind a building at 433 meters.

All tank's except for one stug3 have los and fire. All miss with first round, T-34 knocks out tiger with 1 shot. All remaining tanks fire and knock out T-34, who also knocks out a stug as he dies.

2 more T-34 come into sight, one around each corner of a building at 430 meters, all tanks have los on one at least one of the T-34's. After my tanks fire 2 to 3 rounds apiece, 2 T-34's down, and 2 Tigers KOed.

At this point my remaining tiger and the 2 stugs are quickly over ran by 6 T-34's.

Is this kind of performance normal for german tanks va Russian tanks. I checked the armour pen chart's and at the range all my tanks were listed as having an OK to good chance of taking out the T-34.

Almost all my tanks missed with thier first shot's and the one's that did, scored penatration's with no effect. I was watching the fight from voom level 2.

Looks as though you got unlucky with that salvo from the Tigers to me. I would guess that if you replayed the scenario in a similar manner that you'd get a different result.

[SFJaykey]

Luck plays a big role but I suspect one reason the Tigers didn't live up to their reputation in this case is the range. At under 500m the T-34 has decent penetration against their armor, and the mediocre Russian sights are not too much of a disadvantage. At longer ranges the 88's harder punch and the Tiger's better optics are more telling, and their armor will deflect many T-34 hits. Also at short ranges the Tiger's slow turret rotation can reduce its ROF considerably against moving targets.

- Matt

[ParaBellum]

SPOLIER

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I think it's worth mentioning that the scenario plays in a snow storm. This means the main advantage of the Tigers/Stugs, their superior optics and gun accuracy is nullified by the numerical superiority of the T-34s.

So yes, I'd say it's a normal situation. A bit bad luck that all your tanks missed the first T-34 but under these conditions IMO still plausible.

[SgtMuhammed]

Remember the note in the manual (you remember that big book that came with the CD don't you ) that poor weather conditions will effect high powered optics more than standard. This is because they need more light to work correctly. If this fight is in a blizzard it is very possible that your Germans were partially blinded.

[SpineRipper]

Yep found the effects of cold page, but I'll have to retry the mission, goto find a way to keep more distance between the tanks.

So it would be fair to say then the the german advantage would be distance, while the russians would prefer to close the gap than. :confused:

[SgtMuhammed]

Definitly. You might want to read about Kursk to get a little background on how each side prefered to fight. Especially about Prokorovka.

[CombinedArms]

Also, by mid-1944, the Russians get the T-34/85 with a pretty good 85mm AT gun. It's not guaranteed to kill Tigers and Panthers frontally at longer ranges, but at 500m and under it can be quite lethal. Before the T-35/85, the Russians had a 76mm gun that wasn't much good against Panthers or Tigers and even had trouble against the frontal armor of PzIII's and PzIVs (except at close ranges and/or with repeated hits.) It varies from gun to gun and tank to tank, but the general rule is, in fact, that the Germans want to fight at longer range and the Russians want to get in close. That can be hard to do in an urban scenario, however. Sometimes the local conditions are going to impose a disadvantage.

[Tigrii]

Originally posted by Sgtgoody:

Definitly. You might want to read about Kursk to get a little background on how each side prefered to fight. Especially about Prokorovka.

Russian tactic: Charge Tigers with a bajillion and ten T-34s. German tactic: turkey shoot with 5 Tigers until they get to point-blank range. At that point, armor and gun makes no difference, and the Tigers' slower turret is a big handicap. On the other hand, about a bajillion T-34s were killed in the turkey shoot phase, so it's pretty even.

(Numbers from official soviet statistics )

[SpineRipper]

Thanks for the repliese, Been reading online history on and off all day, about the eastern front.