David Chapuis Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 In my various pre-CMAK reading, I came across this from Rommel's Greatest Victory (Mitcham) referring to North Africa climate: Due to the hot-air layer immediately above the ground, even large guns could not be seen clearly, even at a distance of fifty yards. Everything was distored and apparently reduced in size, as if one were looking through the wrong end of a pair of binoculars.1) Is this statement true 2) Will it be added to CMAK. I assume it would be strongest during the day hours. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Yes, the effect is real. If you ever get a chance to travel to a desert, you can experience this effect for yourself. The layer of very hot air near the ground creates all sorts of unpredictable optical effects not limited to the above. The distance required to create the effect varies considerably with conditions. Personally, I have never seen these effects take place at ranges of only 50 yards, but I can beleive it might happen if the conditions were right. One of the funkiest ones: Sometimes, vehicles and the like in the distance appear to be floating in the air above the horizon. No official word from BFC, but IIRC Moon made some coy effects in one of the recent interviews leading me to believe that effects like this will be modeled to some extent. They might simply reduce to hit probabilities at longer ranges in the clear sky, mid-day desert conditions, though. Cheers, YD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Originally posted by David Chapuis: In my various pre-CMAK reading, I came across this from Rommel's Greatest Victory (Mitcham) referring to North Africa climate: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Due to the hot-air layer immediately above the ground, even large guns could not be seen clearly, even at a distance of fifty yards. Everything was distored and apparently reduced in size, as if one were looking through the wrong end of a pair of binoculars.1) Is this statement true 2) Will it be added to CMAK. I assume it would be strongest during the day hours. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Originally posted by YankeeDog: Sometimes, vehicles and the like in the distance appear to be floating in the air above the horizon.You don't have to go to the desert to see this. Several times I have looked northward from where I live towards the San Juan Islands, and a temperature inversion above the water will create this effect. You can see the islands, and floating in the air immediately above them a mirror or inverted image. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Chapuis Posted October 8, 2003 Author Share Posted October 8, 2003 Well I've seen the effect to a limited degree at various times. I was wondering mostly about the distance - 50 yards seems too short a distance to have an affect on targeting something as large as an AT gun. But I didnt know for sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Private Bluebottle Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I suspect 50 yards is a bit of an exaggeration. From my experience in the desert a figure of 250 to 500 yards is more likely. And no, it doesn't happen at night - you need heat to create a heat haze. Night in the desert has its own visibility problems. :cool: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Originally posted by David Chapuis: Well I've seen the effect to a limited degree at various times. I was wondering mostly about the distance - 50 yards seems too short a distance to have an affect on targeting something as large as an AT gun. But I didnt know for sure. Hmmm... an AT Gun isn't that large. Or it can be if it is just parked on the ground. But after it is dug in and had time to be covered in sand (something that happens rather quickly in the desert), it would be quite small. You wouldn't even need the heat effect to make it hard to spot at 50m. Of course, once it fires it will have a nice contrail of sand pointing back to where it is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massimorocca Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I'd read also in Italian's books that one of the great assett of the At gun, the 88 also, in desert was in fact the mirror effect, because the gunners can see the tanks (particulary the Grant) whose turrets are above the visual screen while the gun are invisible for the tank's commander. and the effect was increase digging the gun a couple of feet under the ground level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pies Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I've seen this effect a lot in Africa, 50 yards seems a bit extreme but it might happen. It is very dependant on elevation too. The viewer and the object being viewed have to be at similar elevations with little or no elevation changes between them so you are looking through a very "thick" (horizontally)layer of heated air. If there is a valley between them or the viewer is higher than the object being viewed the effect is much reduced if apparent at all, because the "thickness" of the heated air is also reduced. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horncastle Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Originally posted by David Chapuis: 2) Will it be added to CMAK. I assume it would be strongest during the day hours. So in CMAK will there be a new time variable, where one can set it for midday (for all those mad englishman to go out in) or early morning when say the air is cooler or a precise time? Would this also have an effect on fatigue etc? In night combat would you be able to set the amount of light generated by the moon i.e. a full moon? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Originally posted by Horncastle: So in CMAK will there be a new time variable, where one can set it for midday (for all those mad englishman to go out in) or early morning when say the air is cooler or a precise time? Would this also have an effect on fatigue etc?No need for midday. The desert is weird. Cold at night, but as soon as the sun crosses the horizon, it gets hot very fast 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Originally posted by Berlichtingen: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Horncastle: So in CMAK will there be a new time variable, where one can set it for midday (for all those mad englishman to go out in) or early morning when say the air is cooler or a precise time? Would this also have an effect on fatigue etc?No need for midday. The desert is weird. Cold at night, but as soon as the sun crosses the horizon, it gets hot very fast </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Chapuis Posted October 8, 2003 Author Share Posted October 8, 2003 Originally posted by Private Bluebottle: And no, it doesn't happen at night - you need heat to create a heat haze. Night in the desert has its own visibility problems. :cool: I was referring to day compared to dawn/dusk, not day compared to night. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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