Ron Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 I think if you are sitting on the fence, you should really look over the list of improvements in CMBB, try the Demo to see the effect of the changes and give yourself an honest appraisal. Having CMBO you will know the full CMBB game will offer lots more than the limited Demo. The flow and pace of battle is different in CMBB and you will have to relearn a few things from CMBO. I know I played both for a few months after CMBB's release but since then I haven't touched CMBO anymore though it is still on my harddrive. Some people have their preferences of what they like and don't like, and some of those people are quite vocal in expressing them. Honestly I don't believe they can see the forest for the trees, as CMBB is much more than their idea of *fun*, or issues with multiple waypoints/delays, or lack of a arty shockwave :confused: (No that isn't a flame but real puzzlement), but that is simply my opinion. I am sure you had some issues with CMBO, but the overall affect was greater than those quirks else you wouldn't have played it for long. The same goes for CMBB, if the interest is there, ie the Eastern Front, then you will enjoy it, if not then it isn't for you. The fact you are seeking opinions suggests it is the latter and you may be better off waiting for a game that does *catch* you. All the best, Ron 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenSplatton Posted May 18, 2003 Author Share Posted May 18, 2003 Actually, my interest in the Eastern Front is the ONLY thing making me think about getting the game. I'd love to play in that sector. I wish there had been an Eastern Front add-on for BO but alas, didn't happen. By the way, speaking of depressing, I just started reading a book called "Siege" about some of the truly desperate battles on the Eastern Front. Very sombering so far. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenSplatton Posted May 18, 2003 Author Share Posted May 18, 2003 Just ordered it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Harrison Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 I was personally a lot better at CMBO than CMBB. But, CMBB to me is a better game. There is much more depth, and a lot more realism {if that is possible}. But quite the opposite is true for me about the eastern front, I have very little interest in it. I prefer the good old America/British vs Germany. But CMAK will bring that back soon enough. My opinion is play both if you are not sure. Even if you dont really like CMBB, still buy it to support future CM's. Chad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Juzzy Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 IMHO, this is a really poignant thread to which, as a relative latecomer, I can add little other than my total agreement with many of the points raised. As the other half of the discussion with Andreas, we agreed with many of the points made by Dandelion in that the enormity and ferocity of the war on the Eastern Front makes it a less than an appealing prospect for the majority of CM players (myself included, initially at least). When CM:BB was in development I, like others, really wanted to develop my knowledge and understanding of the events between 1941 and 1945. But, unlike the western front, it is harder to access the experiences of the small unit actions we’re so familiar with, say, in northwestern Europe. From the luxury of my armchair is England, it’s relatively easy to find out and appreciate the heroics of characters like CSM. Stan Hollis who featured in such venerable CM:BO games as ‘the Sunken Lane’. Doubtless, despite their grim reality, there are moments in reading about these little cameos that a certain pluck, an opportunity for gallantry or chivalry enable me to take something positive out of this mire of horrific experience. Sadly, I feel that the character of the war fought on the Eastern Front often denies this. Many of the more recent, reasonably balanced and readily accessible books on this subject (this too is a problem), e.g. Christopher Duffy’s ‘Red Storm on the Reich’ or Charles Winchester’s popular ‘Ostfront’, are prefaced by statistics which, whilst numbing, enable a comparison between the scale of operations on the Russian front and those in western Europe. Often, I’ve found these figures simply shocking, mind blowing in their enormity. I’m not trying to reduce this to the simple equation of one theatre being ‘worse’ or ‘better’ than another, but what I think I am trying to say is probably best expressed by Duffy, ‘Only nations which were spared the experience of that holocaust have been able to regard the Second World War as somehow more light-hearted than the Great War, and a fit subject for adventure stories and comedies’. But I don’t think I could have had some inkling of what Duffy was driving at if I hadn’t had the privilege of reading the novels of Heinrich Boll (‘And where were you, Adam?’ or the ‘Train was on Time’), Heinrich Gerlach (‘The Forsaken Army’) or Willi Heinrich (‘Savage Mountain’). It’s the absolute sorrow that pervades these books which is crushing. And this is only through German eyes. Sadly, but essentially for me (I think), my reading has drawn me towards the inexcusable consequences of the military occupation of the former Soviet Union that are, thankfully, not charted by CMBB (e.g. Christopher Browning’s ‘Ordinary Men’ or Omer Bartov’s ‘The German army and barbarization of warfare’. For me, all these factors make CMBB a very different game from CMBO. And that ignores the differences in the game engine entirely. But I agree with Andreas, some of the scenarios can just be reduced to ‘war porn’. What I’ve always enjoyed about the good scenario designers in CM is that they have, in one way or another, initiated or deepened my understanding of history. I don’t think I would be reading about the Eastern Front or North Africa if it wasn’t for CMBB for CMAK. I accept that it is really, really difficult to design an authentic CMBB game. It is hard to get the maps and, as a monoglot English speaker, it is difficult to get reliable and balanced details about small unit actions. I’m not sure I want to play a game where I’m are subjected to an hour long 120mm rocket barrage before being stomped, but I’m equally sure I don’t want to be playing faux heroics battling my way out of the railhead with my Tigers in the van. For what it’s worth, I do believe it’s possible to put together scenarios which make some attempt to capture the flavour or recreate an aspect of the war on the Eastern Front in a way that many of the superlative CM:BO games did. I’m thinking here of something like the Stalingrad pack. The thing is, can they, we, do it again? Answers on a postcard please… P.S. Buy it, even David has bought it. And who wants to be whipped in CMAK? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 I agree with some of the points raised on the literature on the Eastern front. Also compare this, outlining some of the battles between famous Eastern front researchers. http://63.99.108.76/ubb/Forum2/HTML/004394.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogue male Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Redwolf, Interesting site, thanks for the link. This thread has convinced me to finally go for CMBB too. RM [ May 19, 2003, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: rogue male ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.