Liam Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 The key to starting with the axis is stopping the dutch gambit. I am going to put up some notes as I know that some of you have become as fustrated as I have with Allied scum, avoiding the German Fist of War. When you begin this Game, attack Poland with 1 air unit from the West Luftflotte, highlighting the Polish AF. Then hit it from Danzig. Move in all your armies, accept for the tank in the North and the 2 air and 1 army. Keep all your units connected do not break connection of your units or your readiness the following round will be killed by encircling Poles attempting to cut your supply and delay the death of Poland. Slowly Move the force like a Sweeper over Poland and know that it's often they hide Polish Air in the Far North West of Polish sooned to be Russian territoral hexes. Don't let him put much in the mountains either, they will help him hold out... After that you Move the Luftflottes in striking range of the Dutch. Operate the Army on a straight path with Antwerp. Tank above it and two corps above and below them both. Along with Runstedt HQs... The following round he will move to defend with the Dutch Gambit, but won't have a chance as you will attack and conquor the Dutch in 1rnd. With all those forces it's nearly impossible to stop. Move the HQ over Essen and stay away from the Dutch for rnd1... Then he will react 2 ways. Attack hard, or just wait... Likely he'll just wait and build up his forces. Poland will be smacked up round two, If he's left many high Readiness German Armies lined up on Warsaw take it so he cannot resupply and then you can begin to hunt fleeing Units, the next round... Poland will usually fall in 3-4 rounds if you keep your armies supplied, important not to let him run way out in front of your Lines, claiming hexes as Allied and blocking your Readiness as your units are not much good then... Stay defensive against the Allies if they haven't attacked. buy a corps with your earnings if you have to, to hold the lines.. That or rebuild the damaged ones. Though your #1 goal now is to mass German Air. You want to buy 1 at fall of Dutch, 1 at fall of Poland, then rellocate all your forces from Poland to France accept for 2 armies and 1 corps... Move them to be Hannover to be transported to Norway... Still do not engage the French unless they leave a very tasty, tasty army open for you attack. Keep your Air units Strong and invade the Dutch using two Luftflottes or 3, knock it down. Then transport your armies, move up to Norway, 2 armies both sides of Oslo. 1 corps behind. Hit Norway with 3 airfleets, move the armies up after you land them, then strike as then you will take the Port. Then you can directly transport the Corps into the capitol and The Norwegians are now gone too... Now that you've bought another air for the following turn... moved and strengthed all your units.. Facing the French. You'll have as much as 6 German Air units, if he's defensive even 7. You will need that many... You begin by hitting the British that do not have have Headquaters and the French that are not in the Ardenne forest. If the Allies move Carriers to intercept that aren't in Port hit them and sink them if it costs you a German air. Becareful to watch what intercepts and remeber which will be weakest.. Keep striking one French Army a round, until he's open if their is a French HQ near the border move air in close enough to kill it... Keep a corps in the South ready to protect from a French Runner or an open hex in the Southern Most Maginot. It will take a bit but you will lose a lot less this way attacking France...and it will fall, if Britian puts his back into the defense... Do not stress... It will only weaken him for Sea Lion or for your expansion into Med-Iraq-Spain-Portugal. Keep German HQs close to frontline Units. Only go for it once you know he's on the run and do not pursue French retreating to Britian focus on the Capitol, catch them before they get out of Port to Freedom. If the Italians come in, and he's moved his fleet ot the N.Sea immediately hit Suez. 1 corps/1 army if you can manage it to the opposite side to hit the defenders in on the Canal if he has one. Using ship bombardment the Canal will fall. Then you will need a Italian HQ IMHO to really force Alexandria to fall fast. The rest is butter, but it's important to strike this way... If you want a strong Axis. You cannot lose half your Armies attacking France and expect to Grow fast and Win. It's about Economy for Germany, she starts out short though she has an Army her HQs and Air are her only True pluses Against France. Use them Wisely. Air around Ports and on cities are better remeber that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Junk Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Thank you Liam, I appreciate the advice and need all I can get. Also thanks to Iron Ranger for sharing some of his insights during a Ladder game we had recently. HJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka of Carthage Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Liam Not sure if I am clear on this. So let me paraphrase. On Turn 2, you are suggesting that the Axis invade the Low Countries with one (1) Pz, two (2) Corps, one (1) Army and two (2) or three (3) air. Is that correct? If so, then I must disagree with you. Those forces will only take the Low Countries about 1/3rd of the time. And the French are going make you pay by killing off one of your units (depending on what hexes you attack from), and put a unit in the city. Air strikes on average will reduce two (2) strength points. Army or Pz strikes on average will reduce three (3) strength points. This assumes no exp for the Army or Pz. Good Allied player will almost always put couple of air, or even worse, a carrier in the London port to counter your air strikes. Or if you get hit with a little bad luck. Then you will end up with a one or two str Corp still in the city. I would suggest you need min of two (2) armies, two (2) air, Corp and a Pz unit. One army to hit the city as you suggested. Pz unit to hit just south of the city (since it has the necessary action points to get there), and that second army moves into the woods to protect the flanks of your attackers. Three air would be nice. Even so, your probabilty is only 2/3rd's and it may cost you your Pz unit. Couple of assumptions by the way... Poland must fall within three (3) weeks, you are trying to take the Low Countries on turn two (2) and you feel the Allied player will do a Dutch Gambit on you turn two (2). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDG Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Shaka, the allies can't get their aircraft carriers in place in one turn, it takes two. Thus the need for a German attack on turn two. I agree though that you should use 3 planes, as I always do. Then 1 tank, 1 army, (these 5 linked by HQ) and then 2 Corps just in case provide backup. This is 90% effective. The allies have no HQ backup, and don't have nearly enough to counter attack, and even if they do, the loss of one unit is about equal to the losses that the allies take in the counter attack. Poland goes down in 3 turns, usually. I also strike directly at France afterwards, bypassing any other countries to get France before entrenchment and the spawning of corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Nice Thread. Been stated ten, twenty, thirty ... pages of postings back but what the hell, some original thoughts are coming through. Regarding Poland. For a long time as the Axis I went nuts trying to take the place on the first turn. It can be done but you can't count on, and it usually results in fairly high German casualties. What I do now is concentrate the first turn on destroying the two Polish armies, the Polish Corp that links them, and slapping the other two corps around a little. Turn two I take Warsaw and destroy the other two corps. It works every time and you can count on it. I'd rather take all of Poland on turn Two with low casualties than be running around frantically with Warsaw still holding out in the east. As soon as the two panzers are free I move them to the Danish border, along with an HQ and the air fleets. While the main army is heading West I whack Copenhaggen with air and sea attacks. If the Danish corps is still holding out, I attack it with the more distant of the two panzers (it wouldn't be able to enter the city so you need to be careful not to use the closer one for this). The Danish corps is now dead. If it's still breathing you haven't hit it with everything. The other panzer unit, which should be right on the Danish Border, now moves into Copenhaggen, spreading joy and cheer and the Gestapo and good will in it's wake. I never concern myself with the LowCountries gambit. If the Allies use it strike low, as in a streetfight, and make them struggle to get out of Brussels as in the von Manstein plan. If the Allies haven't taken the Low Countries, use the old Schlieffen plan to grab the Low Countries first, form a good position with air cover, then invade France. Be careful not to get too daring with your panzer units. Keep the HQs close by, knock France out as quickly as possible. If you don't want to risk Sea Lion, and if the Royal Navy is in the North Sea and Irish Sea you'd be crazy to do so, put an HQ and whatever you can in the way of Luftflottes in northern Denmark -- three Luftflottes in the northernmost hex triangle of the penninsula serves nicely. Transport two corps and position them to land near Oslo, hit Oslo with your air strikes, land the second corps first, it moves a hex then attacks the garrison. If it wipes it out land the second corps and take possession of the city. If not, land the second corps. If the garrison is weak finish it off. Try to have the second corps north of the city while doing this to break the second Norwegian corp's Operate path; otherwise it will be able to regarisson the empty city. Often Norway will fall on the first turn. If it doesn't and you haven't landed a HQ it will be very difficult to take the place in subsequent turns. Often, and for this reason, I hit Norway with a sledgehammer, an army+HQ+2 or 3 corps and, after taking the place, I fly some air units over and grab Sweden once Norway is secure. Be sure to garrison both Bergen and Oslo. An airfleet to interdict bomber attacks and an HQ for reinforcement, etc., are good but a bit excessive. Having Norway and Sweden increases the productivity of both places and is a must for the Axis. Achieving this early is almost a decisive factor in winning the game. If you've read any of the Forums floating around you'll notice I employ many of the gamy tactics I keep condemning (along with numerous other players) and trying to have changed in the game. Hopefully, the sleazier practices unfortunately necessary at present for a winning game, will soon be legislated out and replaced with better, more historically responsible procedures. [ March 06, 2003, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted March 7, 2003 Author Share Posted March 7, 2003 Shaka you'd know in our game that you're wrong. 3 airfleets, 1 army, 1 Panzer, 2 corps have never failed mein 10 games to take Low Countries Rnd.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted March 7, 2003 Author Share Posted March 7, 2003 Concerning making certian Norway falls in 1 turn! Which is utterly vitale to the Germans. bring 2 Armies 1 corp. and place 3-4 fighters in Denmark in around the Fall of France and have an extra corp to rellocate to Bergen DO NOT engage the Royal Navy but if she should come your way, use your corps as bait. Use your airt to whack his carriers down to 5, it will take him several times to recover... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka of Carthage Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Liam I didn't say it wasn't possible. I just said that its a low probability. If you have done it ten times in a row, against human players, with those forces, then you are extremely lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Liam Yes, as I say regarding Norway, the Sledgehammer Approach . With all those troops up there, you may as well add an HQ and grab Sweden as part two of the campaign. Shaka Good point about taking the Low Countries so quickly. I did it a couple of times vs Humans in PBEM games using both panzers and buffering them with corps. It's risky and makes an early taking of Denmark much more difficult. Additionally, in one game Warsaw held out an extra couple of turns. I find all that very aggravating. It's Germany attempting to attack both east and west simultaneously, a not quite sound idea. So what I do now is just take them one at a time. As said earlier, if the Allies want to pull the Low Countries Gambit I consider it their option. I've found that it's only result is to cause Germany to prepare a little longer on the Rhine, but an extra airfleet, then break them and go straight for Paris. Brussels is either vacated or left very weak and quickly taken. True, the Allies get the LowCountry plunder, but they set off American and Soviet entry. Also, Germany gets plenty of plunder elsewhere. [ March 06, 2003, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Ive learned some things from Terif... What Terif practice as the allies is a no no to the dutch gambit. That of course is depending on the quality of the opposition. The reason is that economically it´s a waste of MMP, in fact you will lose 2000 MMP if you do this. Instead attack Ireland, train your carriers, get negliable lower war entry for the US and take the plunder. However if the allied player want to do the dutch gambit go ahead. Use two first rounds to strike Poland hard and on the third simply hit his units. If you stay focused allies will fall anyway before august-september 1940. Thats ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted March 7, 2003 Author Share Posted March 7, 2003 Shaka I have never failed with this attack with 2 corps yet. Not once!!! If you'd like to test it 99-100 I'll probably get it every time. It always ends up after Armor attack with 1 strength point left...then 1 corps to kill and another to cover.. That's if you have all Allied Iintercept. I've yet to fail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Liam I'm sure you're right, but does this hold up against a French counter invasion while Germany is still busy in Poland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted March 7, 2003 Author Share Posted March 7, 2003 Well, to be honest with you, I can only share so much. I will tell you this. I just used this tactic on Rambo tonight successfully, although I didn't get a crack at the English Mainland. I didn't lose a single Army/AF/Panzer<just 1 corps>. You need to keep the Polish Reserves in a straight line. They can't really attack their rnd2. Round 3 they could but it would be overextended themselves without a HQs. you can use your air and 1 hit from the 10 strength army there to keep them Honest... I was done with Poland rnd3 with Rambo and transfered over, took Norway then took France. Lately I have been perfecting the art of a rnd 3 death for Poland. It's something you get a feel for without airfleets... Attack with Supply only. Don't attack Warsaw proper. Destroy individual units as you go. In a series... Some dice help... In my last game I did Poland rnd2 along with Low Countries. If he moves all his air in, all carriers... You will have to buy those extra airfleets. Then Sea-Lion has to be a great consideration. Rambo is keeping the French out of sight He doesn't realize I know this..but I don't care as Germany has Sweden and is near producing 550+ mpps.. I really think French Units suck past the Fall of France. Like weak Italians... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Sounds interesting. I'll give it a shot, will practice invading Poland with neither tanks nor planes, then going for Sweden! Ignoring France makes sense as it's hard for it to do anything. If you've already got tanks in the Low Countries and have captured Brussels it's got to be risky for France to attempt a drive into Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted March 7, 2003 Author Share Posted March 7, 2003 Well, actually John. Use this formation, starting from the ocean adjacent hex on the border with the low countries Corps Armor Army<on city> Corps all 3 Air within striking range of Antwerp rnd 1... Runstedt transfered behind city...close as you can... go in with 3 air strikes first, army, straight across, armor to the north, corps to the south. You may get it with only those 3 units. Save the corps to occupy the Forest Hex... Leave everything else in Poland... Lock the forces together, do not run after him. Let him die slowly... Usually! If you hit early, the English/French don't have HQ bonuses yet. So you're going to have that advantage with your air and you'll lose a lot less anyways then if you wait till they do! The worst they can usually do it kill 1 corps and damage the heck out of your units. Though they've got 2 subs to hunt in the North Sea and they can easily escape death then... Only one shot by Navy at the tank and Occuppying corps... Usually those city units are strong!!! By the time he gets in position, it'll be nice and entrenched and hopefully you'll be operating over Polish Frontier Reserves. Stay away from combat right off. Wait till your Air is Massive.. minimum 6 air units... After you capture the Dutch, Capture the Danish, Capture the Norwegians. Stuff the fleet in port max them out at 11 each.. and smack up the French. You'll find that with superior air, even as much as <7 units> you can get him latest is August... That's still better than eating the losses you get from a Full frontal attack earlier.. and end up waiting just as long anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted March 7, 2003 Author Share Posted March 7, 2003 Also with your extra cash, on rnd2 if he hasn't attacked you...and your luftflottes are strong. Move the Luftflottes up to level with Copenhagen and build a Corps on the border with Denmark... Attack it rnd3... Sometimes I get it in 1 rnd or 2... Doesn't matter experience for the luftwaffe..you need it to take Norway and he will still probably be confused and aranging defenses. Take your time... You have only one objective Air Supremacy.. Luck is the only thing that will save him...time and luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Liam You're obviously a student of Genghis Kahn! Tried a faulty variation, moved both panzers and an HQ to LC border along with all three LFs. Attacked Poland killing both armies but without tanks to disrupt their retreat they were able to ring Warsaw and stall for time. Meanwhile LC fell quickly, went right in France, surrounded Paris quickly but had too many understegnth units to force the issue. That was against the AI, of course. Now that I see your full plan it makes a lot of sense. Exactly the sort of thing I keep starting forums to try and make impossible! I'll keep practicing it on Hubert's '39 scenario. Good to be exposed to new ideas, even if personally I happen to hate them. Thanks for sharing it. [ March 07, 2003, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted March 9, 2003 Author Share Posted March 9, 2003 Hmmm, am I? I didn't realize... I just have been watching everyone and reponding with the best I could do. It's almost impossible to win if you don't adapt in this game. History is of little consequence.. Watch out for the Italian Gambit folks... You can do two things.. I think it's best to just treat it like a small arse invasion and ignore it and if he has misplaced too much of his fleet practice SeaLion to perfection... My next goal after I make Russia fall in 1 year easily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts