Old Newbie (!) seeking insight

[fentum]

Recently discovered the rather excellent SC via direct 2 drive while looking for web updates on Gary Grigsby's World at War. That was a week ago - now have 4 games (Fall Weiss) under my belt, two Axis and two Allied vs PC at difficulty = 0, FOW off for first two games, then on for last two.

What a beautiful game ! AI may not be the best, but great FUN nonetheless. I have a couple of questions and would appreciate any insight from the 'old pro's'. PS played a couple of games then searched the site for advice - great job from many dedicated fans

The Med ??? This has not been a factor in any of my 4 games. As Axis, I'm concentrating on Northern Europe then USSR. As Allies, I'm stretched too thinly to worry ! I've read the strat guides and AARs and they suggest more 'action' in the Med. 'Ignoring' the Med has worked for me both as Axis and as Allies, how would a human opponent exploit the Med ??

The lovely Italians ??? As the Axis, I have used the Italians in very effective ways (perhaps they have Roman blood ?!) which I haven't seen covered in the strat guides. They seem 'too good'. In game 3 I had them taking France and setting up a solid defence vs D-day. They kicked western allies back, but I guess were too dormant in the middle game. In game 4, Scipio Africanus' great great grandson must have turned up, as they took Marseilles from Vichy, then Spain, Portugal and Gib (supported by a German Tank Group). They were raking in the MPPs and dominating the Med sea, eventually op moving 2 tank groups and an HQ to support Army Group South in USSR. Very effective contribution from the Italians, while largely ignorign the Med ??? Any insights ??

All feedback much appreciated !

Fentum

[Sombra]

Human vs human

Simply said Axis can´t ignore the Med . If they do the Allies will simply take Irak (connect to the UDSSR and transfer troops) building up a mayor income source for the Allies.

Knowing this usally the axis players attacks aggressivly the middle East. Against an expierienced and determined Axis player the defense of the Middle East and Egypt is nearly impossible (3-4 AF with HQ support). The Allied troops are baddly supplied and have no escape turning the Med into a death trap. No rules without exception:

If the axis player struggles for along time in France and is slow to take the other minors the Med can be defended or if the Allied player plays an italian gambit the Middle East is an option for allied player. But usally the axis player will take the whole Med and all allied units commited for its defense are wasted and will only delay a little bit the conquest of these resources.

[fentum]

Sombra,

Thanks for the insight. I take it that the AI doesn't 'attack aggressively' in the Med as Axis ? In my (very limited) experience, Axis did very little in the Med

What are the basics of an Allied 'take Iraq' action ?

[Comrade Trapp]

I usually use 2-3 armies/corps, perhaps with HQ and air support.

Considering your only objective is to knock out a single corps in one turn, it should be enough. At least thats how I do it.

[fentum]

Comrade Trapp,

Thanks for your help. I was wondering, more generally, where does this Iraq invasion force come from ? I have the bulk of my UK forces IN the UK, with only 'at start' forces in the Med. Is it sensible to transport UK units into the Med ? It just seems that fighting over the Med will strip both Axis and Allies of troops best used elsewhere. I find it difficult to have a strong view because the AI hasn't punished me, and I haven't punished the AI, for 'ignoring' the Med. I guess I'll have to get into a PBEM game - now THAT will be a new experience for me !

Fentum

[Edwin P.]

Re: UK Forces for Taking Iraq.

I find that you normally need six units to take Baghdad.

1. Move the French Unit In Beruit to to Egyptian Territory after Italy enters the war (= 1 unit)

2. Move the French Unit in Algiers to Gibraltar and the UK unit in Gibraltar to Egypt (= 2 units)

3. Move Canadian Army to Egypt = (= 3 units, 3 more to go)

4. Send French Fench Units to Iraq after France Falls, Surround Baghdad and then attack so it can't reinforce above 5.

[pzgndr]

I find it difficult to have a strong view because the AI hasn't punished me

It won't in the Med. And that's one of the weaknesses in SC. Neither the Axis or Allied AI will reinforce north Africa for either offensive or defensive operations. Best you can do for solo is try some of the mods like my Campaign scenarios which attempt to beef up the Med at setup so you can have some action. Also, the later 1940 or 1941 scenarios provide more confrontation.

Best thing to do is jump in and play someone else. You'll definitely see some Med activity. Allies really cannot afford to lose their Med position to counterattack Italy later in the war. And the Germans really cannot afford to lose their Italian partner early by neglecting the Med. So you have a natural contest between opposing sides.

[Sombra]

Well the Allies don´t have to commit to many troops to conquer Irak usally. Axis attacks in a normal game Vichy quite early. (troops are already in place after France, for getting a broader front to attack Spain later on and the plunder of course) The Allies can capture Beirut easly moving a corps in the undefended town. If Barbarossa already started you only have to attack irak and establish a land connection to rusia the you can move all your troops with terains to Syria you need or ever want.

The allies want to attack Irak quite early to get the most out of it or really late because to attack Irak agers the US and will delay the war entry of the US (UDSSR as well?)

[roub]

Hello,

First of all, you have to read this article from terif : http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=002198

It's only correct one concerning garnison problem.

Next, many things can happens in med.

Just take exemple for fall weiss scenario :

Allies :

- First, you should not move your counter fron syria, alger, gib and malta until italia enter war, otherwise for each unit moving italia will join axis more sooner.

- Next, you have many option :

* declare war and conquer italia on first turn.

you need 3 army the french plane the english plane and the bomber near marseille + 3 cvs and one more corps for landing in rome, one for landing near Venice. It's a 90% working way, it's why many players play didn't accept landing on first turn of DOW against major.

* Waiting italia enter war, and make major landing on tobruk and tripoli. you need 2 corps/armys, 2 planes, 1 bomber and one HQ near tobruk and to corps ready to land behind tobruk. A major fleet south of malta with the 3 cvs the french plane in malta and 2 corps/armys ready to land around tripoli. You let italia enter war, he will have 0mpp for his first turn and no possibility to reinforce tripoli or tobruck. So at your turn you invade the both towns.

* Kicking italian fleet, you have to groupe a major english/french fleet near marseille 3 turn before italia enter war. you move your fleet ( french ahead ) in adriatique and around taranto, and you declare war to italia so you can kick 3 to 4 of the 5 italians ships. ( it cost 10% of amercian entry.

- next step for allies if you have seal the italian pb ( kick the fleet or catching tripoli and tobruk ) you can redirect part of your land army to conquer irak. It's very important via irak you will get 5*7 mpp more and after when ussr enter war you will get supply 10, and 10*3 more mpp from med conquer (it and irak ) and 3*5 from suez and alexandria.

- last step in the med when usa enter war.( but not so sure ), conquering alger and syria, it will provide you a quick link for ussr and med. American troop can land in alger and operate directly in russia.

- All the time tried to keep a plane in malta ( french one is quiet good for that job ).

Axis :

You have not lot of offensive operation to take against a confirme player.

But you will have to defend south of italian and conquer in libya.

To defend 2 more italians corps should be usefull behind tobruk for protecting an complet surround of tobruk ( if surround max 5 reinfort ).

a few ideas :

- major asault on spain : after france you conquer vichy ( don't forget to put 2 army 1 corps to land around alger, and more 1 italian near syria for defending it ), and after spain and finally gibraltar ( you can also take portugal ), so after that you suppy 10 in med but it's costy for american and ussr entry.

- simple defend only but 2 italians corps near tobruk and one plane SW of syracuse ( important it will provide information on action the allies prepare in med.

- Raid on malta : if malta is defend with plane you can with 4 planes 1 hq and a bomber tried to catch malta. buit the german air fleet near syracuse put a italians corps near malta ready to land close malta port approche with your 5 itlian boats ( 1 sub 1 dest and 3 battleship ).

and air raid with the bomber against the malta port the plane will intercept and be intercepted by axis airfleet, after attack with your fleet 4 times and finaly air raid with your last 3 planes.

Best way to learn is to play IP or pbm with human player, and stoping playing the AI because you take bad reflexe as it play really stupid.

That all floks.

See you online.