AAR "Limit" Game: Shaka (Axis) vs Oak (Allies)

[Oak]

August 30

In the east ... I've heard of strategic withdrawals, but this is ridiculous. The entire German line is gone! Not a single German unit within 2 hexes of the Russian line. The Russians move cautiously forward, establishing a new line nearly at the German border, and they can only see 3 armies and 2 panzers (1 army in Konigsberg, 1 army in the middle and 1 army + 2 panzers around the Romanian border). Russian air attacks German units. 2 German air intercept, one of which is killed. Germany now down to 3 air.

In the west ... the Allies expand their line to the LC border in the south and reinforce units (showing that the US is at anti-tank level 1). The German sub that attacked the Dunkerque cruiser is sunk (despite some diving) by a combination of UK air and naval forces. The Dunkerque withdraws. Germany is at sub tech 2.

The Axis is moving aggressively against the Allied forces in the LC. 3 panzers, 5 armies, some corps, the rocket and at least a couple of air are assembled for the attack. The Allies dig in and brace themselves for the onslaught.

[Shaka of Carthage]

September 6, 1942

OKM has lost contact with U-459 submarine pack.

Luft IV, caught in the midst of a reorg, attempts to intercept Russian aircraft with a understrength unit. Not only are all the aircraft lost, but more importantly, the pilots.

Army Group West, using Italian Aero units to bleed off the Allied Air interceptions, conducts strikes against an American Army in the Ardennes Forest. Follow up assaults by the 3rd Army (Ge) and XXXXVI Panzers (Ge), supported by Luft II and IV, as well as the Rocket Detachment, succeed in breaking the American Army. XV Panzers hits the gap, attacking an American Army in the flank. Additional assaults by 2nd Army (Ge), 1st Army (Itl) and XXXXIX Gebjr succeed in shattering this Army as well. Pinned by the German attacks, the XXXIX Panzers pass thru the XV Panzers and scatter an American Air unit, id'd by the initial XV Panzers assault. The American beachead has been split in half, but more importantly, the remaining American units are at a disadvantage because of the river terrain.

IV Corps (Itl), acting on reports of transport movement off of Gibralter, board thier own transports and go on a amphib recon mission. They find that a American Air unit now occupies Gibralter.

[Oak]

September 20

This is turning into a game full of twists and turns. Very interesting, I think.

In the east ... German units pull back further from the Russian line. Deciding this is likely a trap (and too good to be true) the Russians hold and reinforce rather than pursue the fleeing Germans.

In the west ... a German panzer inside the US lines is attacked and killed by UK air, bomber and carriers, with an Italian air fleet killed while intercepting. This war is taking a heavy toll on the air fleets of both sides. The Eisenhauer HQ evacuates, and the remaining US forces dig in around Brussels. However, the Free French, enraged at the Axis presence on French soil, go crazy and attack the Kleist HQ (knocking it down to 7).

In the Med ... the Italian sub flees and the US air in Gibraltar attacks the Italian transport next to Gibraltar (knocking it down to 8). The Free French air in Malta also goes bezerk and attacks Tripolitania (knocking it from 5 to 3).

And, the Yugo partisans go on a recon mission. So, far they have found little of interest.

[JerseyJohn]

Finally a lull in the action. Just want to say this has been five pages of great reading.

[Shaka of Carthage]

October 4, 1942

Army Group West

Luft II, Luft III attack II Corps (US), but have to deal with the land and sea based UK combat air patrols. Rocket Detachment is ordered to engage II Corps as well, which may have been a mistake as will be seen later. XV Panzers and 11th Army both attach and break II Corps (US).

3rd Army (Ge) is now able to attack the 4th Army (US) in Brussels. German forces are eager, because the 4th Army is the only thing that stands in thier way to getting a shot at the CVBG sitting in the Brussels port. XXXXVI Panzers and 1st Army (Itl) launch a second assault against 4th Army (US), which goes down to 1 str pt. Now the lack of the Rocket Detachment tells.

12th Army (Ge) and XXXXIX Gebjr Corps attack the 2e Army (FF), reducing it to 3 str.

Elsewhere

Security units engage another Partisan faction in Yugo.

Italian submarine pack sinks British merchants in the Med (5 MPPs). The Gibralter garrison is seen offshore in there transports.

[Oak]

October 18

In the east ... the USSR declares war on Finland! Helsinki is taken after air/naval attacks combined with landings by 2 Russian armies. The Finnish Isthmus army is cut in half by an attack from a Russian tank in Leningrad. Finland refuses to surrender despite the loss of their capital.

In the west ... Axis superiority on the continent is acknowledged and the Allies pull back. The 2 US armies are evacuated. The Free French army attacks the Kleist HQ in one last fit of passion but do no damage. A German cruiser and sub are spotted on the western coast of Denmark and German air moves towards LC/England, so Allied naval units beat a hasty retreat. The Rodney battleship bombards Bergen, inflicting some damage.

In the Med ... US air operates out of Gibralter and is replaced by the Free French corps.

[Shaka of Carthage]

November 1, 1942

Putting a damper on the celebrations of throwing the Americans off the continent, comes news that the Russians have invaded Finland. With the loss of the Helsinki port, there is not much that Germany can do. While holding out against overwhelming odds, its just a matter of time before its over.

Using Finland as an example, diplomatic pressure is increased on Turkey to join the Axis. There is no middle ground between Germany and Russia.

Low Countries has been liberated from American oppression. 12th Army (Ge) takes the surrender of the last elements of the 2e Army (FF).

I Aero assists Security elements eliminate a Partisan Yugo faction.

American air in Gibralter leaves, replaced by more French mercenaries.

Italian submarine pack sinks British merchants in the Med (5 MPPs).

[Oak]

November 15, 1942

In the east ... the Finnish army is killed by the tank in Leningrad and the Russian cruiser. The other 2 corps are attacked and Finland surrenders.

In the west ... a heavy air war that sees the killing of 2 (not 1 but 2) German air fleets, both somewhat by accident.

First, the UK bomber attacked the Manstein HQ near Paris, escorted by UK air (now at level 4) and intercepted by German air in Cologne. Having heard that carriers with lots of experience and tech are almost indestructable, and expecting the German air to have taken a heavy hit from its interception of superior UK air, I have the aptly named Courageous carrier attack the German air in Cologne from a position just west of Antwerp. The attack is intercepted by Italian air (now at level 2). The carrier is knocked down from 10 to 2, and I decide they aren't so indestructable after all.

Expecting the remaining German air to have moved east to attack Russia, the other UK air decides to gain some experience and attacks a German army near Paris. Much to our surprise, the attack is intercepted by a German air near Marseilles. We are further surprised at seeing the intercepting German air disappear after its attack. Realizing that the German air in Cologne is probably quite weak, the US air near London attacks the German air in Cologne, killing it.

A UK battleship and 2 carriers attack the German army in Bergen, inflicting little damage. We are disappointed in the performance of our carriers, now with 3-4 bars of experience, level 4 jet tech and good supply.

[Shaka of Carthage]

November 30, 1942 (?)

The Axis have received a major shock. The Allies are flying a new jet aircraft, which upgraded models of the Me109s and Fw190s are having a hard time contending with. It appears that the British Meteor jet aircraft has been scrapped for a more advanced American design, known as the F-84. Axis engineers are baffled how such an aircraft can operate off of a carrier, especially during November in the North Atlantic. There are rumors that the F-84s have a model with swivel engines, allowing near vertical take off and landing (VTOL). The design for these aircraft have come from a group known as the "Skunk" works, operating out of a secret base known as Area 51.

The Axis have pressed thier scientists to accelerate work on the individual rocket packs for the military, while another group works on disruptor hand weapons.

Two (2) Luft units and the majority of one (1) Aero unit are in shambles. Once again, pilots have to shorten thier training time to fill the losses.

Italian submarine pack sinks British merchant ships in the Med (5 MPPs).

[Oak]

A comment: I think that both Shaka and I have been slow to adapt to changes that have taken place in this game. . The small number of air units that come from the limits on air units means that air units need to be moved around both often and quickly in response to opportunities and challenges. However, the high jet tech levels (everyone but Italy is at jet level 3 or 4) makes for high casualty levels on both sides in air battles. There just isn't enough time (and often not enough MPP) to allow for units to be reinforced to maximum strength before being moved. Early in the game, we each had to watch out for situations where air could be killed by being within range of several opposing air fleets without adequate air support. Now, we have situations where air is being killed from one single interception. Both of us will have to plan our moves and strategies with this in mind.

Let me also add that my view is that the air limits give the Allies a big advantage and put the Axis at a big disadvantage. In fact, this series of games with Shaka was started with the intent of proving that point. I believe that the fact that the Axis have lost 3 air fleets now from intercepting Allied air attacks is evidence of the advantage to the Allies from the limits in air units. The Italians are behind in jet tech, meaning that the 4 German air (assuming that Germany is at its limit) needs to deal with 7 Allied air (assuming that the US, UK & USSR are at their limit), plus the Allied bombers and carriers. This makes it even more necessary for the Axis to move air fleets around, and further exposes their air to fatal interceptions.

[Oak]

December 13, 1942

The last move of 1942 is quiet one after the recent frenzy.

In the east ... not much activity except that the Russian cruiser bombards Stockholm without inflicting any damage.

I should also note some activity in the east that has been hardly mentioned in the AAR. The Axis has a German tank with 4 bars of experience sitting on the Iraqi side of the Iraq/USSR border. Each turn it pounds away at a Russian corps on the other side of the border. Once the corps is knocked down to 5 or 6, a fresh corps takes its place. Occasionally, the tank gets knocked down 1 in the attack, but the Axis are definitely doing better than the Allies in these border clashes.

In the west ... the Allies bomb Antwerp. Otherwise, nothing much happening (at least that the Axis can see or that I'm willing to talk about). No attacks on Bergen this turn and the UK battleship moves away from there.

Germany is now at level 2 tank and reports indicate that Italy has built a second air fleet.

[Shaka of Carthage]

Response to the Comments

As far as moving air units around in response to the changes, in my case, from the very beginning, I have been moving my air units around. Early on, it was an attempt to catch the carriers (to avoid what is happening currently). But at a certain point, they had to be moved every third turn or so, depending on what neutral was being taken out.

Air disadvantage for the Axis. The problem is real simple. Its the carriers. Remove the carriers from the equation, and the flow is exactly what I am after. Before the US or Russia enters, the UK has 2 air to face the German 4 and the Italian 2. Italy can't get the 2 very fast because of the MPPs, so you have to decide what your strategy is with them. That is exactly what happened. Remember Battle of Britain? In our case, its Axis 4 air vs UK 2 air. If they are eliminated, UK is wide open. That assumes the Axis go after UK. If you go after neutrals, you will probalbly use the air for them. That gives the UK the opportunity to hurt the Axis the only way it can, thru strategic bombing.

Once the US enters, then things change. Now there are 3 air. More options are availiable to the Allies, and this is where the Italians come into thier own. It takes time, but eventually the US will get another air. So now the "west" has 4 air units and Russia has 3. Axis have to decided where and how to employ thier 6 units (4 german, 2 Italian). Same sitauation that our historical counterparts went thru. As time goes on, the US gets even more, and if they are using strategic bombers, the Axis are now losing MPPs. If we went the historical path, which we dont, the strategic bombers (4 to 8 units) would be pounding the crap out of the Axis positions. But we don't go that route.

Those numbers represent the historical reality, giving us the same strategical decisions and choices.

The problem is the carriers. Unless you eliminate them early on, you are now in a position where they will snipe you to death. Or as everyone who has played a no limit game knows, you end up with Germany having 6 or 8 air before Barbarossa.

The "fixes" have been discussed and discussed and discussed. But we are still in the same sitatuation. Until then, the two (2) North Atlantic carriers will have to be replaced by battleships (and one strat bomber given to UK).

[Oak]

Shaka,

1) After this game perhaps we can try another where the 2 carriers are replaced by battleships and the UK gets another bomber.

2) I'm also starting to appreciate the value of bids for players with a little more experience, so perhaps we can also bid for sides in our next game.

Oak

[Shaka of Carthage]

January 10, 1943

All quiet on the Western and Eastern Fronts. Army Group Afrika continues its border clashes, and Stockholm is bombarded by a Russian CABG.

Italian submarine pack sinks British merchants in the Med (5 MPPs).

[Shaka of Carthage]

Oak

Before we discuss any Bid, I'll send you the campaign. There are some changes so it will give you a chance to see everything. As usual, you can pick your side.

The amphib option is just about driving me crazy. If you read the "enhancements" I want, basically if you do an amphib, you will be limited in how many hexes you can move. Tranports (port to port) will be as normal, so no problem there.

There there will be the weather. In Winter, the Air will be grounded.

[ August 21, 2003, 06:05 AM: Message edited by: Shaka of Carthage ]

[Oak]

February 7

The Allies were pretty pathetic in their attacks this turn. In fact, downright pitiful.

In the east ... the Russian cruiser bombards a German corp sitting north of Stockholm, without causing any damage. 2 Russian airfleets then also attack the German corps in and next to Stockholm and also cause no damage.

The Rundstedt HQ seems to come and go from northern Iraq. Allied air appearing in Gibraltar seems to send him scurrying away from Iraq. Now he is back and supporting the tank pounding away at the Russian border troops.

In the west ... the Ark Royal carrier and Rodney battleship attack the German army in Bergen and only knock it down by 1 (the carrier caused no damage at all). And, the UK bomber hits Antwerp (knocking it down to 0) while the German army in Brussels is attacked by the UK carrier docked in London.

Partisans appear in Yugoslavia.

[KDG]

I'd remove one carrier from the Allies to start the game. I'd also bump max air fleets for the Axis to 6.

I would then, as the Axis, purchase a couple carriers to help pound northern russia, as well as defend vs England.

I agree with you Shaka that tanks need some sort of minor improvement, either by dropping their cost, or bumping up their soft attack by 1, thus prolonging their importance until Russia gets advancement in anti-tank.

Thanks for the AAR's, makes for good reading while at work waiting for the computer to update.

[JerseyJohn]

Some of the action here, combined with some of the situations from my own games, has got me a little disgusted with the game mechanics.

For me the biggest problem is the carrier unit. We've discussed this at legnth elsewhere and your AAR isn't the place to continue it, I'm only putting it here as it fits with the last couple of posts, but carriers need to be naval units and not floating air fleets! These are all problems that we have to push harder for Hubert to correct in the game itself; I don't think house rules will do it.

Sorry for the interruption. Enjoying the AAR and its side discussions very much.

[Shaka of Carthage]

March 7, 1943

Another stern note has been delivered to Turkey. There are no middle places during these times. You are either for us or against us. Direct your attention to the West if you are unclear about what we mean.

Army Group Southwest strikes at Spain and Portugal. XV, XXXXVI and XIV Panzers swarm ashore in Valencia, brushing aside the weak resistance. 1st Army (Itl), 5th Army (Itl) engage main Spanish forces in and around Bibao. IV Corps (Itl) isolates the French mercenaries in Gibralter.

Army Group Eagle engages Switzerland. XXXXIX Gebjr move against the Swiss militia but are stopped dead in thier tracks. German Stuka dive bombers and Italian Bv155 strike aircraft are ineffective because of the mountainous terrain. Even the Rocket Detachment is used, also with a poor showing.

Security units operating in the Balkans have been redesignated as RAID, for Rapid Anti-Insurgent Divisions. The name also appears to have something to do with the constant reoccurence of the Partisans and how its reminiscent of a certain insect. RAID units have engaged another Yugo Partisan faction.

Army Group Nordic units, in and around Stockholm are under naval and air bombardment by Russian forces.

In an effort to achieve greater productivity from the Flak units, women have been recruited to operate and run the homeland defense Flak units.

Italian submarine pack sinks British merchants in the Med (5 MPPs).

[Oak]

March 21

The Axis goes on a DOW binge, with DOWs on Switzerland, Spain & Portugal. There is little the Allied powers can do to save their new Allies. Interestingly, the Axis air and rocket had no effect on the Swiss armies.

In the east ... the German corps north of Stockholm is bombarded while Stockholm is attacked by 2 air and a bomber. (Shaka keeps talking about the Allies never having enough bombers, so I decided to take his advice and Russia built a bomber). A Russian transport appears off the coast of northern Sweden.

In the west ... Antwerp is bombed while Bergen is attacked by battleship and carrier. The German army in Bergen is knocked down to 6. A US army transport appears next to Bergen.

The Yugoslav partisans head north, after having received only minor damage, and another group of partisans is formed to take their place.

[Shaka of Carthage]

March 31st, 1943 (?)

Army Group Nordic units in Stockholm and north of Stockhom are bombarded by Russia naval and air units. U-47 submarine pack, in support of Army Group Nordic, strikes at the Russian Marat CABV, reducing it to 2 str.

Army Group Eagle, eliminates the 1st Army (Swiss) and reduces the 2nd Army (Swiss) to 5 str. Acknowledging the futility of resistance, the Swiss join the Axis.

Army Group Southwest proceeds to eliminate the Madrid Corps (Sp) and in the process surrounding Madrid with three (3) Panzer Groups. IV Corps (Itl) engages Lisbon Corp in Portugal. 1st and 5th Armies (Itl) reduce V Corps (Sp) to 3 str. 2nd Army (Sp) takes refuge in Bilbao.

RAID units trying to stop the infestation of the first Yugo Partisan faction receive reports that another Partisan faction has been spotted.

Italian submarine pack sinks British merchant ships in the Med (5 MPPs).

[ August 22, 2003, 01:45 AM: Message edited by: Shaka of Carthage ]

[Oak]

April 18

In the east ... the Russian cruiser hobbles away and transport moves away from Sweden while 2 air and the bomber attack the German sub. Despite 3 air hits on the sub, it is still afloat at str 4. The cruiser Shaumyan in the Black Sea moves to the coast of Bulgaria.

In the west ... Spanish troops can do nothing to reach Madrid or keep the Axis out of their capital next turn. So, they head for the hills.

The German army in Bergen is attacked by a battleship, 2 carriers and a US air, knocking the army down to 2. The landing US army then finishes off the German occupiers of Bergen. Bergen stands empty with the US army sitting to the south of it.

Both Yugoslav partisan groups run for cover ... but can't find any.

[Shaka of Carthage]

May 2, 1943

8th Army (Ge) overwhelmed by Allied Air and Naval bombardments, falls to an amphib strike by the 2nd Army (US). Army Group Nordic responds by replacing the shattered 8th Army (Ge) with XII Corps (Ge) and positions Waffen SS Corps (Ge) to repel the invaders.

Army Group Southwest reduces Lisbon defenders to 3 str, encircling those that remain. Madrid falls, Bibao defenders are scattered. The only organized Spanish resistance is the 1st Army (Sp).

RAID puts down one Yugo Partisan faction, time to deal with the other.

[Oak]

May 16

In the east ... Russian air attacks the German rocket, now near Bucharest and sent to deter the Russian cruiser that has now sailed away from Bulgaria.

The German sub in Stockholm port is reinforced by Germany and then attacked by Russia with 3 bombers and 2 air. Still, the sub is not sunk (the sub is in Stockholm port, which gives it greater defense from air attacks but prevents it from diving).

Russian transports will be observed by the Axis both north and south of Stockholm.

In the west ... Germany moves one corps into Bergen and another next to Bergen. US air based in Scotland attacks the German corps in Bergen, and the attack is intercepted by German air now in Oslo. The corps in Bergen is then killed off by UK carriers and a battleship. The US army south of Bergen moves in to occupy it. And, Antwerp is bombed.

The Yugoslav partisans continue to run from the Axis troops chasing it. Reports indicate that Germany still has only 2 air fleets.

[Shaka of Carthage]

May 31, 1943 (?)

Army Group Nordic reports that Bergen has fallen, along with the lost of XI Corps (Ge). In addition, three (3) Russian tranports are spotted south and one (1) north of Stockholm. Waffen SS is withdrawn from Bergen to face the greater threat of the Russians.

Army Group Southwest occupies Bilbao (Spain), Lisbon defenders break and Lisbon occupied. 1st Army (Sp) reduced to 6 str. French mercenaries occupying Gibralter are blocking the Spanish Foreigh Legion, trying to return from North Morrocco to defend Spain.

RAID, reinforced by XXXXIX Gebjr, shut down another Yugo Partisan faction.