hellraiser Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Anyone tried this so far? I've been toying with this ideea for the past few days but had no time to play a full 'me vs me' scenario to see if it is a viable option or not. At first glance I can notice some pros as well as some cons. The main ideea is to not DoW any minor beside LC and Denmark (which are essential for a reasonable France Campaign). This is a very long term strategy which focuses on delaying USA and USSR from joining the war for a very long time. The obvious flaw is the lack of a powerful german economy, but in this case the existing mpps are more than enough to keep UK at bay or, depending on the jet and LR tech advances, to keep UK under high pressure. The big guys will join starting with 1942, a time when Axis should be quite technologically advanced and able to fend off any assault aimed at their possesions. The minor feeding will start after USA (the latest big power to join) comes in. Some nice things you can do with this strategy: 1. You do not get upset if u have a longer France - it may be better if you focus on collecting experience for your troops and , very important, not losing troops. Either a short or a long France fits the Axis. In other words, Axis could care less if they take France in autumn 2. The delayed war entry of USA and USSR allow Axis to invest 10 chits in tech - potentially having a very high tech by 1942. 3. The MPPs are scarce. Yup, that's a fact. But having only UK to worry about, this might not be such a huge problem after all - at least i hope so Depending on the tech advances, Germany can either be on defensive - and it has enough MPPs to crush any UK interference anywhere on the map, or be on offensive - if Germany get LR 2 or better, above, and some jet tech as well. Conducting an air campaign over UK might make UK use almost all of its income for replacing losses (in the case UK decides to fight the LW). 4. The big guys WILL join at a certain point. Germany will not be able to run a two front war anytime soon. So they have to devise a tactic to keep one of the big guys away - obviously the choice is USA. Going heavy subs (4 or 5 units + some tech) and investing in italian fleet (GLR and additional surface units) might just do the job. That's why, during France, Axis can assign some fighters to sink some RN units to ensure the North Atlantic later domination. Yeah, this means a longer France, but who cares for 2-3 more turns? Protecting the Baltic Fleet appears to be paramount under these circumstances. 5. Once everyone is in, the minors feeding fest can begin - just make sure you cannot be breached anywhere else by the reds. USA+UK shouldn't be launching a D-Day very soon due to your Atlantic assets (buy bombers if u want but keep those transports away from landing in france until you are ready for it). Just some thoughts here, please comment and agree if it could be viable or not. Or make adjustment if u like. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Play a worthy opponent, agree on the rule, & start the bidding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted December 10, 2004 Author Share Posted December 10, 2004 lol... i have a game vs dalmatian partisan now ... After 3 LWs (supported) scored ZERO hits on the ardennes zero entrenchment french army (supported) i will try this nice option Maybe i will take rambo's advice to subdue skandinavia, or at leat norway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonheart Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Dont talk about it...just do it in one of your games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted December 10, 2004 Author Share Posted December 10, 2004 is there something wrong with you lately, DH? by reading some of your last posts you seem to appear the new SC guru ... good for you, that is really cool ... but if u are not really interested in this thread, go post somewhere else...i asked for your opinions over a specific strategy/issue...if you don't have one, please spare me the comments like you posted here ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonheart Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 hey i think you got something wrong. I was just an hint to use this tactic ag another player...but if you announce it before it´s no surprise. And i m sure you like an estonished opponent. Honestly said i never considered it but it sounds interesting and if this would work it will change the game completely. But i fear the missing MPP will kill germany ag russia...but this depends very much on the bid. Did i say something wrong as you are pissed with me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted December 10, 2004 Author Share Posted December 10, 2004 in your last post, no. this way it should have been from the beggining ... forums are used for exchanging ideeas; yes i could have tried it but what if i missed a very important aspect which would render this ideea completely useless? do I need to spend 5 hours playing only to find out that i did not realize one clear and important aspect? What i tried was to get some initial feedback from players so as to know exactly if i should waste time over this or not. If a lot of replies will be 'hmmm it may work, but...' for sure i will give it a try But if i receive a reply saying 'because of reason X, your strategy sucks ass' and if the 'reason X' is exactly THAT important aspect i may have overlooked, than it will save me a lot of time wasted for nothing I just started a new thread...if u guys are in the mood for posting, do it ... that is what is all about this forum-thingy [ December 10, 2004, 08:34 AM: Message edited by: hellraiser ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonheart Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 There are lots of aspects you have to obey. Most important is that most games are decided by MPP advantage. So if you loose more MPP vs allies than you win by this strategy this strategy is crap. Another thing is that you loose some stratetical advantage and also your units doesnt get that much expierence.....and if you intend to take all minors later you will need alot of units as you will have to fight on several spots to the same time. Russia.... you wont attack them as this will increase USA readyness...if you do so you loose some of the effect you gained before....also the border thing is more difficult to handle...as russian readyness is jumping much more beginning with 1.Jan 1942. For the roughly calculation ...you have to come along with about 250MPP average until the big boys are joining which means you will get roughly 8000 MPP provided you have 2 years after the fall of paris. Normally you will get about 10.000+1200 plunder (norway,sweden,vichy,spain) before barbarossa. (roughly 1 1/2 years after paris). So what is your gain? Due to the late entry (saving 1/2 year) allies loose 5500 MPP but on the other hand the russian border guard will survive saving them 3500 MPP. And in this half year you are saving you will loose again some MPP...550 AG 250 ...giving 300 difference for 8 rounds =2400 Maybe the absolute MPP disadvantage when calculating all factors isnt that high, it is roughly 3000-3500 but you have to survive the critical time after barbarossa until you finally get all those minors and its a huge difference if you get the money in 1941 or 1942. [ December 10, 2004, 05:24 AM: Message edited by: Dragonheart ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonheart Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DalmatiaPartisan Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 just stopped by to say hello and iritate Cosmin hihihi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted December 10, 2004 Author Share Posted December 10, 2004 @DL -> iritate me? nope, never i am very calm even if i get the stinking france in 1941 although you gotta admit 3 turns of zero results airstrikes on that lousy french army is kinda (insert kuni's favourite word here) but we'll go on with that game, don't worry i ain't a quitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 I'll be happy to give this a try via PBEM, as a friendly. I'm presuming that in return for the no DOW rule, there is no bidding. Also, just want to clarify: can the Axis DOW on the USSR or USA, or do they have to wait until those countries have joined the allies before they can attack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted December 11, 2004 Author Share Posted December 11, 2004 bill, firstly, i do not play pbem - i like fast games and tcp works best for this secondly, you bid in 1/5/20 system thirdly, 'no-DOW' is not a rule, it is an option for axis gameplay, a strategy let's say - and it seems to have serious flaws and has to be yet tested anytime for a TCP game if u wish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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