Camicie Nere Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 First of all, I would like to say that the feedback I have gotten on my forthcoming unit mods has been tremendous. I truly, deeply, and sincerely appreciate everyone's kind words and input and suggestions. The work on the aircraft mods proceeds apace, and I have completed all of the USAAF and Luftwaffe. I am sending my "preview" of those 24 aircraft to Super Ted and Otto, who have been kind enough to host my previews on their sites. For one reason or another, the file comes out a bit clearer on Otto's website, but I appreciate both of them equally in allowing me to share my creations with everyone. Notes on the aircraft: Thanks to the suggestions offered to me on the previous thread, I have drawn heavily upon the "experimental" Luftwaffe designs. I have included the Meserschmitt P.08.01 4 engine prop design, the Focke Wulf design for a strategic jet bomber (glossed by me as the "3000"), and, of course, the legendary Horton XVIII "Amerikabomber" that was just a few "what ifs" away from appearing over New York City sometime in 1946. American "what ifs" allow a SC player to pump a lot of resources into jet development and potentially match up the spectacular F-86 Sabre against those Luftwaffe "sci fi" designs. I included the B-29 as the first jet bomber basically because I have always loved that aircraft. Also, unless I am off base I believe that prior to the B-1 and B-2 the US has only developed three jet powered strategic bombers (the B-36, B-47, and B-52.) And the B-52 just seemed to be too far into the future to shoehorn even into a WWII "what if." Anyhow, I need to get to work on completing this bad boy. I get excited about what I have done thus far and want to share, so again I offer my sincere gratitude to Ted and Otto for their kind assistance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straha Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Camicie! I did some homework. Japanese (just for kicks): http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/Kikka/Kikka.htm Hungarian (just for kicks, too): http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/Varga/Varga.htm Russian "hybrid" design: http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/La126-138/La126-138.htm http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/MiG-13/MiG-13.htm Russian jets: http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/La-150/La-150.htm http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/MiG-9/MiG-9.htm http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/Su-9/Su-9.htm http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/Yak-15/Jak-15.htm ITALIAN !!! jet design: http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/Re2007/Re2007.htm http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/CC-2/CC-2.htm Straha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloid Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Originally posted by Camicie Nere: ... Also, unless I am off base I believe that prior to the B-1 and B-2 the US has only developed three jet powered strategic bombers (the B-36, B-47, and B-52.) ...Northrop's Flying wing, the XB-49, was aloft in 1946, as a jet bomber... It's a perfect "what-if" aircraft which actually flew! A quick Google search will supply everything you need! (God I love the internet... and DSL!!) heh! Aloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfpack Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Originally posted by Aloid: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Camicie Nere: ... Also, unless I am off base I believe that prior to the B-1 and B-2 the US has only developed three jet powered strategic bombers (the B-36, B-47, and B-52.) ...Northrop's Flying wing, the XB-49, was aloft in 1946, as a jet bomber... It's a perfect "what-if" aircraft which actually flew! A quick Google search will supply everything you need! (God I love the internet... and DSL!!) heh! Aloid</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straha Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Btw the only tile I absolutely do not like is the French waving the white flags. There is a rational and an emotional reason for this: The "rational" reason: those flags did not belong to their insignia. The reason "from the heart": it makes them look ridiculous, and they do not deserve that. Let's imagine France does not fall due to the stategic cunning of the Allied player, or while it falls, it is liberated later. No matter what, the poor French units are doomed to walk around with those white flags! Straha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camicie Nere Posted June 19, 2002 Author Share Posted June 19, 2002 Whoa! That site on jet designs is an absolute GODSEND, especially where the Regia Aeronautica is concerned! Even though I had already tricked them out with prop designs and German leftovers, I will happily head back to the designing board! And as for the surrendering French, that of course is a riff on them that indeed could be described as being unfair. (And in all fairness to them, I am a serious student of WW ONE and am much more impressed with the performance of their armies than with that of the British.) When this bad boy is done, I will have "non-surrendering" alternative mod that can be used should one so desire. I must admit that I have played the demo with my mods for units (and unit strength) and the sight of a Maginot line full of white flags has not ceased to amuse me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonManstein39 Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 I like your mod - but a couple of your aircraft choices I disagree with. The Me163 proved to be almost useless as a combat aircraft - it shot down less than ten enemy bombers during the war. It was very difficult to get into a good attacking position with the limited fuel available, and many aircraft were lost on the ground in accidents with the fuel. Even the unrealised Me263/Ju248 version with wheels and more fuel would still have been limited in impact compared to the Me262. Also as far as I'm aware in SC the war can't proceed longer than 1946? So I think that any plane that didn't have or wouldn't have had a flying prototype until 1947 shouldn't be represented, as it takes at least another year to reach the front lines in quantity after first flight. Like the B-47 and F-86 for example, which were created by the USA using captured German data, which if Germany was still fighting the USA wouldn't have. No one in the West knew about swept-back wings until after the war in Europe was over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbellamy Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 i think we should strive less for historical accuracy, in terms of which planes were more representative of a certain class, or what their combat performance was, but instead concentrate on which plane would look best on the counter or which planes have a certain "mystique" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straha Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 I agree that the Me163 proved not to be extremely successful, but what would be the alternative then? At least that thing saw real action, and that is a big plus. And I agree that it is one of the most "mysterious" planes there were in the air at that time, even if the different V.T.O.L. crafts like the Heinkel projects "Wespe"and "Lerche" would have easily topped it: http://users.visi.net/~djohnson/heinkel/helerche.html Maybe the problem with these crafts and the Me163 is rather that they were not fighters in the conventional sense, but only short term interceptors. If all models should be fighters, one could think of the He162 "Volksjaeger" again, but the problem with this bird is that it comes after the Me262 "Sturmvogel", and still is probably not really much better (if at all better) ... It is totally true that the Germans invented the swept wing design etc., but I see no real solution for some of the other countries than to make use of the early jetplanes which were based on captured German design plans, even if this is somehow circular (as they get them in the game while still fighting the Germans from whom they got the basic stuff in the first place). At least the Russians were quite quick ... (and as a sidenote: even the Czech practically immediately after the war build a jetplane based on the Me262.) Straha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gredeker Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 Regarding swept-back wings, I seem to recall reading that the Me262's wings were originally swept back due to center-of-gravity issues - I want to say that the original design was a tail-dragger, but when it was changed to a tricycle landing gear the wings were swept back to ensure that the nose had more weight than the tail to facilitate the new landing gear configuration. Am I completely out to lunch? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbellamy Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 can you please include the Ekranoplan in the Soviet Air Fleet counters? http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JulianMoseley/ekranoplan.html please? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Carrot Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 The ME 262 was originally a tail-dragger. I am not certain but I think it was changed to a trike because of the damage done to the tail wheel by the engines. [ June 20, 2002, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: Cpl Carrot ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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