SC2 and Intelligence/Espionage

[Edwin P.]

During WWII the Allies were able to break the Axis codes and gain substantial insight into their force dispositions.

To reflect this I suggest a New Investment Option: Intelligence

Each point achieved gives you a 10% chance per turn to see the dispositions of 10% of the enemy forces with whom you are at war with for 1 one turn. Of course, this investment would only be of value with FOW turned on.

Example: With 1 point in intelligence the Russians would have a 10% chance to see the location of 10% of the German units each turn. 2 points in intelligence would give you a 20% chance to see the location of 20% of the opposing force each turn. At 5 points in intelligence you would have a 50% chance each turn to see the location of 50% of all enemy units.

This formula reflects the fact that no intelligence operation knows everything about the enemy and that intelligence is not always available when you need it.

Futhermore, since allies share intelligence, only one allied nation would have to research this investment.

[Codename Condor]

Glad u come with this idea, i was thinking about this issue too, but with differences, yes intel could act as an eye of the beholder, but also investigating enemy tech and enemy chits. Also, now theres some kind of intel, represented in the report option, but this is a razors edge, u dont know if the opponent wasted his money in transports or in fleet, subs...So with intel u could know exactly what kind of this later the opponent has.

Intel could be another tech to discover, u have to buy chits to develop the option.

[Liam]

I purpose an advancement on the idea. In Germany for instance getting Intel was hard. Though in a minor, depending on where, not so hard. I suggest that there be a minor vulnerability factor and as far as the navy is concerned that's hard but they did break Enigma. Howa bout Recon Intel? That being part of it, that you have a percentage of unveiling certian units via: Recon, local dissidents, spies, Codebreaking, overall the amount of money you invest into Intel<though only Major nations like USA/UK/Britian/USSR are allowed intel abilities>

[disorder]

good idea!

LIAM --- GOOD POINT. intelligence had to be few and far between for smaller countries, with no planes, etc.

what about "bad intelligence' showing a unit to be somewhere when it didn't really exist?

[Edwin P.]

Condor and Liam, I like your ideas, and here is one way to program it, In case Hubert decides to add it in a future Update (IE Advanced SC or SC2).

Intelligence Research gives you three insights into the opponents forces;

1> Location of Enemy Forces - Per Liam making it easier to see enemy forces outside of their home country.

1 Chit = 10% per turn to reveal enemy units for one turn. You reveal 5% of the forces in their home country (due to better security) and 15% of forces located outside of their home country (due to partisan activity and recon activity).

2 Chits = 20% per turn to see enemy units for one turn. You reveal 10% of the forces in their home country and 30% of the forces located outside of their home country.

5 Chits = 50% to see enemy units for 1 turn. 50% of units in enemy's home country and 75% of units located outside of their home country.

2> Research Progress Example - Per Condor reflecting attempts by intelligence agencies to learn about the research areas of the enemy.

1 Chit = 15% per turn chance to see the research screen research screen of each enemy country.

2 Chits = 30% per turn to see the research screen of each enemy country.

5 Chits = 75% per turn to see the research screen of each enemy country.

3> Steal Enemy Technology

1 Chit gives you at 2% chance of gaining 1 chit in a research area where the enemy is more advanced than you are.

For example if Germans has Jets 4 and UK has Jets 3 then the UK has a 2% chance of gaining 1 chit in Jets. Once UK reaches Jets 4 (the equal of Germany's rating) they can no longer gain a free chit in Jets as there is no advanced technology to steal.

(1 Chit 2%, 2 Chits 4%, ...... 5 Chits 10%). This progression reflects the fact that stealing technology is harder than finding out about it, although not impossible.

[KDG]

I like the Intelligence research option, but wouldn't include stealing tech, since this is already in play when calculating the chances for a research improvement.

ex. Axis Jets 3, Russians, Jets 1

Russians 2 chits in Jets

((3-1) + 5) * 2 = 14% chance of advance.

[Codename Condor]

Intel could change this game a lot, funnier for sure, but also a bit more complicated, u can do a lot of things with intel:

- Sabotage: leave units without suply, give units wrongs orders (Bulge battle), insurrection of units, strategic resources sabotage...

- Find out enemy troops positions , i like your idea here Edwin.

- Find out enemy tech levels

and KDG is right tech theft is already implemented in the latest patch.

[Night]

Love the idea. Two thumbs up

[JerseyJohn]

Agreed with Night.

The only problem is there have been several suggestions for new research areas. By now it's up to around twenty, and almost all of them are good ideas. Some of the suggested new areas ought to be combined so we can fit them all in as maybe four new researches, but when I suggested that it was like pulling teeth, so I gave up on it.

Anyway, I like this concept a lot. If it's adapted the USSR should be up around 4/5 right from the start; they had a great spy system. It only fell short when Stalin failed to listen to it, as in accurate warnings about Barbarossa.

[ March 19, 2003, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[Edwin P.]

Jersey John,

I like your idea that Russia start with 4/5 chits in Intelligence. It would do a lot to even the play balance against a human Axis Player and would reflect the strength of Soviet intelligence, from partisans and their secret police network.

Why?

At 5 chits there would be a 50% per turn for Russia to see 75% of all Axis units in Russia.

Thus the Russians would have a better idea (but not a perfect one) of German force dispositions while the Germans would be in the dark (as they historically were) about the deployment of Soviet military units.

[Liam]

A lot of this is good talk!!! You know with the German Air Supremacy over the Red Bear during the early days of Barbarossa what was a Suprise Contact??? Now you've got to have an expensive bomber present to get the extra hex coverage. Intel would be interesting HOW ABOUT HIS! As was historical, the Partisans at a certian tech level for Russia are placed by that individual instead of random partisans! That could make a huge difference in supply gaps, as well as more partisans available for Russia but not level 5 corps. More like level 2-3 Corps...A bit more accurate, few thousand men with explosives and basic equipment...