JerseyJohn Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Hubert. There are tons of topics being discussed and none of them are getting anywhere due to a lack of feedback. We'd like to know if we're on the right or wrong track with these ideas. A little information about SC 2 and how different Forums either do or don't fit in with it would be in order. Instead of basing ideas on reliable information we're basing them on rumors and speculation. Nobody's asking for a blueprint, only your opinions of what is or is not feasable. If reading these wild ideas is frustrating for you, it's ten times more frustrating for those of us who enjoy the game you created and would like to suggest improvements. Some sense of direction would really help and would make posting ideas a lot more enjoyable and productive. If you don't want any suggestions that's also acceptable, except it would be good if we knew that so we would feel free to do more constructive things instead of engaging in dead end monologues. We all appreciate the fact that you've provided feedback in the past. But it's especially needed at this point with so many new ideas floating around. [Also copied to JP Wagner's Forum.] [ March 03, 2003, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Well, I suspect Hubert is down in Gold Coast, Florida, trying mightily to whip the Toronto Fury into competitive baseball shape. :cool: Now but of course this may well be a treacherous proposition, given that them Damn! Yankees are trying every scam-scheme imaginable to buy yet another pennant! :eek: What is needed, I think, is for Joe Hardy to come out of retirement, or Purgatory (... after all, he DID have truck with that dastardly Devil) and sign up for Hubert's struggling ball club, yes? Since as we all know there ain't enny Senators outfit no longer which he could moil & toil for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konstantin V. Kotelnikov Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 I just checked the spring training games and it's top of the 5th and my beloved Toronto Blue Jays are Spanking the Yankees 8-2. Yeah! MORAL VICTORY!!!!! Hmmmm, now to relate this to SC. Maybe increase the map size to include toronto. Ok and Iowa. There are a few places here that could use a good bombing. Imagine the 100000 MPP per turn from Iowa pigs and corn being bombed by the axis. LOL, sorry for being off topic. But I do love baseball, oh so very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 As originally posted by Konstatin V Kotelnikov: I just checked the spring training games and it's top of the 5th and my beloved Toronto Blue Jays are Spanking the Yankees 8-2. Yeah! Ah, this IS good news, When the Pinstripes are awkwardly strewed, Or beautifully askew, sure, ... God's in His Heaven, And all's right with the World. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les the Sarge 9-1b Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 To ask a dumb sounding question... But what is Huberts connection with baseball? I ask, because well heck I am aware for instance that MMP source for all things ASL is after all owned in whole or in part (not sure which) by Curt Shilling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P Wagner Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 JJ...Below is the link where Hubert responded to a similar question...it's not much though... hopefully something more substantial will materialize with your post.... http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=002047 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 JPW Thanks for the info, copied the top entry and pasted it in that forum as well. [ March 03, 2003, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P Wagner Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 OH NO...now we'll both be accused of being nags!!!!... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 Misery loves company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P Wagner Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 As I think about it, I realized that BattleFront does not have anything mentioned as being "in the works". At least, if they do, then I can't find it. Matrix Games has their "future development" products listed. I have been looking forward to their Napoleonic Strategic game, Empires in Arms, for over a year now and hopefully it will be released this summer. .400 Studios, the makers of Out of the Park 5 baseball sim, have Title Bout Boxing in development, a boxing sim that I'm waiting on. I wonder what other games BattleFront has in the works? If they do have some game designs already in motion, then perhaps they should start a new section advertising what's coming. I don't mind how long in the future it takes to see the release, of a game. I think the in development info is a good form of advertising....afterall, it worked on me for the two games I mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 UPDATE . . . last spotted heavily disguised in the Himilayas shunning all forms of electronic communication . . . heard muttering, "nags-nags-nags . . .." on mountain paths, believed to be a Tibetian mantra. . . . [ March 04, 2003, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Originally posted by J P Wagner: As I think about it, I realized that BattleFront does not have anything mentioned as being "in the works". At least, if they do, then I can't find it. Matrix Games has their "future development" products listed. I have been looking forward to their Napoleonic Strategic game, Empires in Arms, for over a year now and hopefully it will be released this summer. .400 Studios, the makers of Out of the Park 5 baseball sim, have Title Bout Boxing in development, a boxing sim that I'm waiting on. I wonder what other games BattleFront has in the works? If they do have some game designs already in motion, then perhaps they should start a new section advertising what's coming. I don't mind how long in the future it takes to see the release, of a game. I think the in development info is a good form of advertising....afterall, it worked on me for the two games I mentioned. Well, call it a policy thing. We don't like announcing things until we're very very sure about the what's, when's and why's. These guys around the boards here are like sharks, and when they smell meat... "Sources" tell me though that Hubert is working on something and, contrary to other news, is NOT tantric (yet?)... Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Originally posted by JerseyJohn: Hubert There are tons of topics being discussed and none of them are getting anywhere due to a lack of feedback. We'd like to know if we're on the right or wrong track with these ideas. A little information about SC 2 and how different Forums either do or don't fit in with it would be in order. Instead of basing ideas on reliable information we're basing them on rumors and speculation. Nobody's asking for a blueprint, only your opinions of what is or is not feasable. If reading these wild ideas is frustrating for you, it's ten times more frustrating for those of us who enjoy the game you created and would like to suggest improvements. Some sense of direction would really help and would make posting ideas a lot more enjoyable and productive. If you don't want any suggestions that's also acceptable, except it would be good if we knew that so we would feel free to do more constructive things instead of engaging in dead end monologues. We all appreciate the fact that you've provided feedback in the past. But it's especially needed at this point with so many new ideas floating around.JerseyJohn, Thanks for your post, and I realize now that I HAVE been a little quiet lately as to what direction I will be taking with SC2. The question of whether or not you are on the right track is a valid one and the only honest answer I can give at the moment is unfortunately 'yes' and 'no' Right now is still a little early for me to say what the right direction is, something I hope to clarify somewhat in the next few months, but believe me when I say that this is still a good thing. I think some of the recent ideas, and this includes ideas going all the way back to last July since months seem to pass like days for me , are fantastic and even though SC is my first commercial game most of the ideas do match my style very well, i.e. where there is a great attempt to balance the "what-if"'s within a quasi historical basis/limits. Believe me there are many threads currently bookmarked in my browser and some of them are REALLY good, but at the same time I honestly don't want to exclude any of them while at the same time strongly commit to any of them. Game design is a long and drawn out process and often you don't really know what you'll get until you have the final product. SC was a game I thought about for 10 years and worked on for about 2 and even then while the basic framwork remained, some ideas were tweaked or scrapped altogether when shown they simply would not work well in the final product. While my answer may appear to be somewhat disparaging, it is the best answer I can give. Am I frustrated with the recent suggestion threads? Absolutely not, I think I'm a very lucky developer due in large part to the content of these forums. I think the best answer I can give right now is leave it up to you guys to decide whether or not you wish to continue to post ideas/suggestions but at the same time hope you understand that they do not fall on deaf ears even if I often do not respond to them on a regualr basis. Some may see the light of day in the next game, some in the future or some not at all, but either way I think the next game will be that much better because of them. To give you a better idea of where I currently am, believe it or not SC1 still occupies a good portion of my time, it sometimes is unbelievable the amount of work that goes into all sides of developing and supporting a game, something I am still learning but can probably be appreciated when you are a company of one person, and don't even get me started on the challenges involved on eliminating some of the technical limitations in the current game engine. (Hint, Hint) Long story short, I'm still here, I'm always listening and appreciate all of your patience in any delays or general time it will take before the next game will be released or even announced for that matter Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Boggs Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Originally posted by Moon: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> These guys around the boards here are like sharks, and when they smell meat... Martin </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 Hubert Thanks for a fantastic response. Of course I will continue posting ideas, if I didn't I'd be wandering around the streets muttering them! Good luck on your projects, your patience and research paid off in spades. By the nature of the things players have posted it's easy to see the game, while appearing simple, is very complex. Touch one area at the expense of throwing something else out of whack! I'm sure everyone, especially the regulars, are confident you'll come up with great solutions to discovered problems and even greater improvements for either SC or SC 2. My days of nagging you are over (at least till sometime next week). Like so many others, I'm looking eagerly forward to all new patches (if in the works) and/or new games you'll be putting out. [ March 04, 2003, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 When he's least expected, that's when one hears the shrill shreik Jimmy Boggs! but when you turn to look it's already too late, he's back, lurking in the shadows again. . . . :eek: [ March 04, 2003, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Boggs Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Originally posted by JerseyJohn: My nagging days are over. Jersey: No way dude. This forum would go stale without ya. Keep up the good work. Some of us (me) actually LEARN stuff from the discussions here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Les the Sarge, Rather than try to explain the how & why of Hubert's connection with the glorious game of baseball, I offer a reprise of a post that I made last July 14th: ********** Another good review, so what's that? Hubert's batting 3 for 3! Which is better than any of the current crop of Toronto Blue Jays, eh? Hey! I've got it! Now that Hubert is becoming rich and famous, he can buy the Jays , re-name them the Toronto Fury and who knows? In 20 or 30 years they can challenge the mighty New York Yankees! And, to save a little money -- no need for an error-prone human manager, they can use Hubert's Amazing Logic, or... H.A.L. for short. I can see it now, Summer of 2003... HAL: Lay down a sacrifice bunt. BENCH: But, Skip, we're down 13 to nothing and it's the bottom of the 9th already! HAL: H.A.L. is infallible. BENCH: And there are two outs! HAL: H.A.L. is not only infallible, but has uncountable friends in extremely high places... BENCH: Who's that? -- Spiderman? Yeah, is he still hanging around town trying to solve the garbage collector's strike? HAL: ...and in low places as well, like the waterfront docks of 'Jersey. BENCH: ... Hey Mack! Lay that baby on down... ********** If you were wondering about my reference to Joe Hardy , well, he was the main character in a fictional book from 1954 entitled "The Year the Yankees Lost the Pennant," by Douglass Wallop. It was later made into a successful stage play and then a movie starring Ray Walston (... quite comedically devious as the Devil) and Gwen Verdon as the temptress, with Tab Hunter as the average Joe. It was a take-off on the ancient Doctor Faustus legend, where a man trades his soul for "success" in the material world. In the story, Joe Hardy is an old Washington Senators fan who bemoans the Damn! Yankees (... the title of the movie musical) who seem to win every year, and so, one very strange evening he is visited by the Devil, who barters with Joe and gives him temporary youth and... an extraordinary baseball ability so that he can play for his beloved Senators and help them defeat the mighty despised Yankees. Anyway, there you have it. I wasn't deliberately trying to be obscure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 Jim, Aw shucks, ya convinced me. Actually, what I'd meant wasn't that my posting days were over, just my days of nagging Hubert for responses. In any case, you're right, no doubt I'll start nagging again in a few days. Can't even say I got it from the wife, I was a nag long before meeting her. Good to see you wandering over from the General Forum. Dropped by there a little while back and, became dizzy reading nonstop postings, most of them borderline psychotic (perhaps a bit across that border), and scurried back here where I'm relatively safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 Immer If they're going to dethrone the Yanks they ought to at least have the decency of relocating to D. C.. I still love the original Washington Senators(later Minnesota Twins, not to be confused with the second franchise, which fled to Texas!) motto: "First in Peace, First in War, LAST in the American League!" Haven't seen the movie Damn Yankees in over twenty years, thanks for bringing it up, have to place it on my see soon list. The Whatever Lola Wants Lola Gets! number is a classic. As a longtime Yankee Hater (raised in Brooklyn when Campanella, PeeWee, the Duke, Jackie Robinson, Gil Hodges and Furillo were the Dodgers) the Washington Senators and (then) Kansas City A's both had the same significance, whatever stars they had this year would be starring for the Yankees next year. An important factor as our slogan was "Wait Till Next Year!" a cry of misery brought on by losing to guess who nearly every October. Then again, when we finally won it the Bums, as they were affectionately known, didn't stick around very long. So maybe the Red Sox curse is actually a blessing, at least they remained loyal to their fans. Well, now that I've reminded myself of Walter O'Malley's treachery (along with his accomplice Horace Stoneheim and the contemptable NY Giants) I'm through with Baseball for another few years. Maybe the earliest point in a season that I've made that decision ! Actually, the Damn Yankees scenario is no longer possible. The Devil would never make a deal against his own ball club. [ March 04, 2003, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 As originally posted by JerseyJohn: Actually, the Damn Yankees scenario is no longer possible. The Devil would never make a deal against his own ball club. LOL! Ah lo, say it ain't so, Joe... Well, "dem Bums" are now "dese Corporate entities." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 Immer The corporate entities, yes, almost forgot about that -- thanks for reminding me! remember back when so many of those underpaid major leaguers had regular jobs in the off season? I think Carl Furillo was still walking along steel I beams working on skyscrapers they year he won the batting championship (.343 1953?). Imagine a batting champ, or even a .205 hitter, doing that today! His agent would be down on the sidewalk erecting a safety net. Speaking of those contemptable NY Giants. I like a little exchange that came up a few years ago between Don (Mandrake) Mueller and Willie Mays at an old timer's reunion. Mueller used to play a very lackadaisical Right Field when Mays was Baseball's greatest ever Center Fielder (I know, there's Joe and Dom DiMaggio -- Speaker etc., never saw them but it would have been impossible to be better defensively than Mays) Willie McCovey ambled over and someone mentioned his days as SF Giant Left Fielder (with that same incomparable Willie in center). Mueller made a little quip about Mays having to play both left and center. Mays shook his head and replied, "Yeah, but before that I had to play center and right when you were on the team!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konstantin V. Kotelnikov Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 As a loyal Jays fan, all I can say is they will break your heart. Someone needs to buy the team and get them back to the shape they were in in 89, 91, 92 and 93. I miss those teams. As a historian I respect the History of the Yankees, but the current Yankees show everything that is wrong with baseball. Yes Virginia, baseball is broken. So anything or anyone that mocks the Yankees is welcome in my home. Oh to relate this to SC. I think I could park 20 german aircraft carriers off new york and bomb yankee stadium into submission. That would be fun. P.S. Dave Stieb is a god! [ March 04, 2003, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Konstatin V. Kotelnikov ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 Konstantin No doubt raising the property value! In the early seventies I lived about thirty blocks uptown from YS near Grand Concourse and Fordham Road. At that time all the streets around the big ballpark looked as though they'd already received the treatment you've just described. Before building Yankee Stadium the Yanks shared the Manhattan Polo Grounds with the NY Giants. For years this arrangement worked out fine till the Yankees bought Babe Ruth and company and began winning pennants (yes, there was once upon a time when the Yankees were just starting to win pennants!). Their landlord and chief October rival had a very sportsmanlike reaction to this new found competition. They evicted them! [ March 04, 2003, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minotaur Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I'll get right to the point... Before this topic is moved to the General section because of too much Baseball things... Originally posted by Hubert Cater: Thanks for your post, and I realize now that I HAVE been a little quiet lately as to what direction I will be taking with SC2. I think we were wondering if you were still improving SC or preparing SC2... But you answer us quite well... Originally posted by Hubert Cater: Am I frustrated with the recent suggestion threads? Absolutely not, I think I'm a very lucky developer due in large part to the content of these forums. Of course you are... Originally posted by Hubert Cater: Some may see the light of day in the next game, some in the future or some not at all, but either way I think the next game will be that much better because of them. That's why we do post suggestions... And placing bets on which idea will be there or not... Originally posted by Hubert Cater: To give you a better idea of where I currently am, believe it or not SC1 still occupies a good portion of my time, it sometimes is unbelievable the amount of work that goes into all sides of developing and supporting a game, something I am still learning but can probably be appreciated when you are a company of one person, and don't even get me started on the challenges involved on eliminating some of the technical limitations in the current game engine. (Hint, Hint)Hire some programmers to help you... You are rich now... Seriously, I understand that technical issues (like the DirectX 9 compatibility) is on the top of your list... Making sure that all peoples buying the game may actually play it is more important that adding new features... If I can give you an advice, when you're ready to improve SC: Work on the Campaign Editor first... Give us more option to modify the game... We are a capable bunch and you'll be surprized at how we can find solutions to problems... For example, the first campaign I created... I modified only 2 things in the 1939 scenario: - The Subs in the atlantic, unable to do anything and quickly unsupplied annoys me, so I moved them near Germany instead... Now they are useful as warships... - I wished I could research what I wanted at the start of the game, instead of having the same researched thing time after time... So I removed all fixed research for all countries and put them in the Unassigned section... And I add 1 point to all countries to compensate for the fact that they don't have research already done... Even France and Italy had 1 point... Imagine my surprise when I first saw a level 1 French Air Fleet when fighting France ... My point is: Instead of complaining and hoping for a change in a future patch, I change the game myself... Most of the things people asks in the forum may be changed or simulated by us, if we have the tools to do it... That will leaves you with the thing that you have no choices but to program (like the weather, the new ampibious rules, etc...)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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