Common Rookie Mistakes - Early War

[Friendly Fire]

Hi guys,

I have played quite a few games with new players over the past few months and I've noticed a few common mistakes during the opening turns. Nothing here is new, there are lots of excellent posts by Terif and others that explain this stuff. But since the mistakes seem common I may as well write something.

Here we go, top 5 rookie mistakes in the early war, in no particular order.

#1 Turn 1 Low Country Gambit.

Yikes, this is a terrible idea against an experienced player! During his first turn the experienced Axis player will be preparing to invade the LC. Even if you can take Brussels (not a high probability) there is a strong risk the Axis will punch a hole through your front. You simply don’t have enough time to get units in place to properly defend the whole frontier. Wait till turn 2, if Axis commits everything to Poland then seizing Brussels and all the hexes adjacent to the Rhine then the LC gambit can be very effective.

#2 Carriers against the Luftwaffe

Carriers are pretty weak in 1939, but with training and tech they will become the most powerful units on the board. The axis player will be happy to see the planes from the carrier fight his land based aircraft; the MPP exchange favors Axis heavily. This means that want to keep them safe and out of harms way in the early part of the game. It will be tempting at times to use your carriers to take out damaged Axis units but consider the risks carefully.

This doesn’t mean that you should leave them in port, in the first few turns they are good for finding and sinking subs. Ireland is a perfect carrier target, and any Axis unit that strays out of air cover present an excellent opportunity for further training! Once France falls the Allies play should be on the lookout for opportunities to further train the carriers.

#3 Missed Allied Opportunities.

What I mean here is that during the game the Allies have a few freebies. But often my opponents have been letting these pass by. First is Brest, there is no need to evacuate Brest until Axis forces you to do so. Depending on how the French campaign went the Axis player may not want to divert resources to get it back right away. It is worth 10 MPP to Allies and 16 MPP for axis, or a 26 MPP swing. If you can hold it for ten turns it could mean one less German army invading Russia.

Similarly don’t let Axis have Bergen and Beruit without any kind of fight. You need to be ready to occupy those cities as soon as Norway or Vichy falls. Remember, if the Allies sit back and let Axis do everything they want to then the game is lost.

#4 Air Raids on the Royal Navy.

I like to dangle a few Royal Navy ships out in the channel in the hopes that the Axis player will waste his air resources trying to sink them. Don’t fall for this! The Allies have lots of ships and we are happy to see you use valuable air strike instead of taking out a land unit (or re-enforcing, or moving the air closer to Paris).

But keep in mind #2 above, if the opportunity arises, sink a carrier! If you need to trade an air unit for the carrier do it, this is like trading a rook for a queen on the chessboard!

#5 No plan in Poland.

Another common mistake is when the Axis player takes all his units and tries to destroy as many Polish units as possible. The result is typically a bunch of damaged but in supply Polish units. One turn 1 the Allied player will fall back to Warsaw or try to cut your units out of supply.

A far more effective strategy is to force a breakthrough so you can get three units adjacent to Poland in turn 2. All these units need to be in good supply. If you can do this then most of the Polish units will be out of supply. Then in turn 2 you can take Warsaw and with a bit of luck Poland will fall in turn 2. Sometimes you need the help of one air unit to force the breakthrough.

But remember to prepare to invade the LC at the same time unless you want to fight across the Rhine! (Most players use an HQ, 3 air, 2 army/tank and 1-2 corps on the western front.)

I hope this post was helpful. Best of luck to anyone who is just starting out with SC!

[ September 16, 2004, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: Friendly Fire ]

[JerseyJohn]

Friendly Fire

Great Thread.

As the Axis, I've taken to crushing Poland quickly with everything, it falls on turn two, and operatine everything to the LC border with the plunder. I know that isn't the best playing idea, but it's the way I'm most comfortable with. It's worked a lot of times when I used to play regularly, but I'm sure it would be shredded against a capable player.

Lots of great playing tips in that post. One of the best I've seen, up there with those of Terif, Zapp and Rambo.

[jon_j_rambo]

Friendly --- There's alot of dudes who have logged alot of hours playing SC. If you get a chance, play a Big Name Player to get some standard openings. There are variations, but the game really is like chess.

[Friendly Fire]

John, thanks for the kudos. It can work to send everything to Poland and still crush the gambit but it is a dangerous strategy for new players.

Rambo, I agree the game is a lot like chess. But FYI I have played a number of very good opponents, including Terif and Dragonheart. And there are a lot of very good players who you don't know about, maybe because unlike you they do not make constant posts here proclaiming how good they are! Maybe they aren't interested in becoming a "big name player" Does it pay well, by the way?

The purpose of the posting was not to explore all the opening variations but to help new players avoid making common mistakes. I made the post not to brag about my own abilities (I still can improve my game a lot) but because I really enjoy helping new players!

[jon_j_rambo]

@Friendly --- Hey, "I am what I am". Since you tried to get a little dig on me...well, send me these so called good players. They can hide in the shadows, but I will shine a light of whip ass!

Rambo 3:16

[it's Les]

Biggest noob mistake, forgetting you can play this game hotseat against yourself, thereby cutting the AI out of the loop, and even completely eliminating the vexing issue of online cheating scandal.

There is no tougher opponent than yourself.

Try playing both sides sometimes

[JerseyJohn]

Brother Rambo

You asked at the clubhouse about my Elvis story, put it in there, think you'll enjoy it when you have a spare moment.

[Curry]

Friendly Fire - Good points. I hope new players will read this.

As to Rambo, have you seen the Leon commercials for Bud Light. I think Rambo is the SC communities Leon. The new commercial with Leon and Joe Buck is so funny to me.

[Roosevelt45(the 2nd)]

Originally posted by Friendly Fire:

John, thanks for the kudos. It can work to send everything to Poland and still crush the gambit but it is a dangerous strategy for new players.

Rambo, I agree the game is a lot like chess. But FYI I have played a number of very good opponents, including Terif and Dragonheart. And there are a lot of very good players who you don't know about, maybe because unlike you they do not make constant posts here proclaiming how good they are! Maybe they aren't interested in becoming a "big name player" Does it pay well, by the way?

The purpose of the posting was not to explore all the opening variations but to help new players avoid making common mistakes. I made the post not to brag about my own abilities (I still can improve my game a lot) but because I really enjoy helping new players!

Very well said indeed!

I'm not a part of the PBEM league but I do play PBEM against people I actually konw by face(neighbours,friends, family).

I'm not anywhere near the level at which, you,rambo or Terif(d'uh) play so your post was indeed very helpful to me.

My normal adversaries are not on this forum so they miss out on a lot of background information like, 'don't just throw your army at Poland and hope you'll get Warsaw ', which is in my eyes one of the biggest mistakes a player can make.

[JerseyJohn]

Roosevelt45

Regarding the dangers of the Crush Poland First Plan, you're perfectly correct. In several PBEM games that strategy failed miserably against Rannug, who to my knowledge is the leading proponent of the LC gambit. I know Kuniworth talked about before Rannug began using it, but Rannug does it so well I can't imagine anyone improving on his methods.

As a game I think these strategies are perfectly valid, but the don't ring true historically and for me the game loses most of it's enjoyment when it begins straying from reality. Aside from diplomatic considerations, logistically I don't think either Germany or France / Britain could have pulled off a successful Low Countries campaign earlier than the winter of 39/40.

Hitler actually wanted to invade Belgium and Holland in late 1939 but couldn't do it during what turned out to be a very severe winter.

This isn't reflected in the game. Which isn't to say weather isn't a factor, only to say it isn't nearly as much a factor as it was in the historical setting. Aside from which, I don't think a blitzkrieg invasion could have been conducted even in a routine winter.

From what I've read at the SC2 Forum much of this is being taken care of in the sequel.

[Roosevelt45(the 2nd)]

Hitler actually wanted to invade Belgium and Holland in late 1939 but couldn't do it during what turned out to be a very severe winter.

And because a German airplane with the attack plans in it crashed in Belgium, thus alerting the Belgians of a possible german attack in the winter .

We warned the Netherlands, so they were on their guard during the winter as well.

[JerseyJohn]

I don't think that was the actual reason, though.

It was the reason they changed over to the Ardennes Plan, worked out by von Manstein, which would have been impossible to implement in rough weather.

The thing is most of the Allied generals were skeptical about the intercepted plans and thought there was some misinformation purpose involved. The Begians and Dutch probably didn't take it too seriously either because neither country did the sensible thing and invited Britain and France to send troops to help guard their Rhine and tributary borders with Germany. The could have put them in line without actually entering the war. Not that it would have made much difference if really believed they'd be invaded in the Spring.

No, I think the difficulty both sides had in the same region during the winter of 44/45 shows how difficult it would have been to conduct offensive actions at that time of year and is the only reason Germany waited till Spring.

The original operation, which the one that was captured, was an updated Schieffen Plan. It would have had very little surprise value and the existing Allied Dyle Plan was made in anticipation of exactly that kind of German offensive.

[Friendly Fire]

Hey Roosevelt45, glad you liked the post.

I thought of a couple more that fit the theme...

#6 Leaderless RAF in Combat

Once in a while a new player will engage in air battles over the channel before the purchase an HQ. Bad idea! Without the HQ your airfleets lose badly in combat. Keep the your airfleet out of harms way unit you can buy Monty.

#7 Inviting Italians to the Party

Keep the Italians out of the war as long as possible. This means not moving units out of the med. The common mistake is to operate the Malta air to the UK. If you replace it with a corps it is okay but if you leave Malta open then Italy joins in a few turns. Fleet movements are okay...

[ September 17, 2004, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: Friendly Fire ]

[Roosevelt45(the 2nd)]

JJ,

of course the main reason was it was just too damn cold and harsh to invade at that time, but because they had to make a new plan to invade also made it more appealing to purspone(is this correct?)the invasion.

When the plane crashed, weather wasn't as bad as it would get later on, the drawing of a new plan wouldn't have slowed them down much but weather was beginning to lool really ugly too,so they waited.

At least, that's how I remember it.

Could be wrong of course,

my memory's getting a little vague on the pre-war part, I'll brush it up a little tomorrow(aaaaah,sweet sunday )

Friendly Fire,keep giving me those tips and I might just win my PBEM-game I just started .

[jon_j_rambo]

who cares about one plane? how about 3,000,000 goosestepping killers coming over the border. Just listen to Hitler getting them all worked up & beating up old ladies buying bagels, you knew they were coming.

[Desert Dave]

...you knew they were coming.

________________________________

The Killer awoke

Before dawn.

He - put - his boots on.

Then,

He walked on down

The 5-sided hall.

He came to a door.

Bored, he stared in there,

At... a man,

Gross and old and slouched,

Paring his nails.

"Say... Mister General?"

Yesterday,

And again

Today,

You have failed

Us all."

[ September 18, 2004, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

[JerseyJohn]

Roosevelt

Your memory is more reliable than you think, that's exactly what the situation was! The weather kept clearing and Hitler would push his generals to launch the invasions and a few hours before jump off there would be a new storm and it had to be cancelled. I think it went that way a dozen times. So often that the British and French thought all the preperations and postponments the kept getting word of were part of a deception plan!

One of the bad things that came out of this was that Admiral Canaris, who kept feeding information to the British through a go-between, lost his credibility when several of his warnings proved to be false.

Most German generals agree that Manstein's Ardennes Offensive was unsound and only succeeded because the French had decided in advance that it couldn't work. In game terms it would be like the Allies leaving the wooded areas north of the Maginot Line undefended. They were lightly defended by picket units, nothing more.

To make it even more ludicrous, the offense had almost no air cover, the Luftwaffe was already stretched thin covering the units invading Belgium and Holland. Guderian said even a light Allied Air attack on the long columns of vehicles would have blocked the narrow roads for days. The air attacks never came, not even after it was obvious that the French were aware of the attack which was on Sedan by that time.

The Germans also had a false start in Poland. Several of the units in East Prussia crossed the border three days early and, unsupported, they were mauled. The Poles failed to use this incident to alert the world that invasion of their country was imminent.

General Rambo

The plane was nothing, only a light Storch two seater used for tactical recon and transport of key personnel. In this case it was carrying a major with a satchel. The satchel contained the detailed plan for Germany's invasion of Belgium and Holland. This was the original plan. Naturally, if the British, French, Belgians and Dutch would have acted together to defend against it the resistance would have been much stiffer than it was historically.

It's possible that the Allies might even have held out, but both Belgiam and Holland would have needed to allow British and French troops to enter their countries and take up positions behind their rivers.

[JerseyJohn]

Desert Dave

We posted at the same time a moment ago. Just wanted to say that when I was in SAC I used to play chess with that general!

It's true, actually. He'd been flying to the Fail Safe point for so many years that he was only waiting around for the end of the world to become official. He had it all worked out. He'd try to find a place to land when it was all over. If they did miraculously land he planned to write his report of the bombing run, turn his papers over to his executive officer, take the .45 from his survival kit, bid the crew and staff farewell, and put one through his temple.

I was twenty with two stripes, I'd play him wearing civilian clothes and I swear the guy really was a walking ghost. The character in Dr Stranglove, Maj Gen Jack D. Ripper was really not that different. I'm sure they both would have passed all the psychological tests.

[Roosevelt45(the 2nd)]

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

who cares about one plane? how about 3,000,000 goosestepping killers coming over the border. Just listen to Hitler getting them all worked up & beating up old ladies buying bagels, you knew they were coming.

Actually, they don't sell bagels in Europe .

(exception:UK)

Not any good ones any way.

[Desert Dave]

As originally posted by JJ the Discerning:

I'm sure they both would have passed all the psychological tests

Yep, he, and They, would have.

With - flying colors flying.

Those "grip on reality" tests were

At once designed

By... a kissing cousin. :eek:

**[... talk about - rookie mistakes! LOLOLOL!]

[Friendly Fire]

grumble. YOu guys hijacked this topic. I was hoping to see a discussion about SC tactics...

but, at least there is some activity on the forum!

:cool:

[Desert Dave]

...grumble. YOu guys hijacked this topic.

Yep, yer right FF,

And for my part as one of those guys,

I apologize.

It's just that... well, I was being

Instantaneous-spontaneous, and that

Occasionally means RE-visting

60s Iconography Land! :cool:

Heard a noise - a "break on through"

Sort of noise, and...

Never mind.

Yer right, FF, this was

An excellent thread,

And your own contributions

Were well thought out!

What can I add?

**Here's one way to play,

So to sharpen the edge of yer adze:

Play "hotseat,"

And not any plain-old encounter

I am talking.

What I do... I have 5 or 6 printed pages

Of... SC S&T variations.

So,

Before I play one of the two sides

(... and this might be BEFORE each

year, and/or before each turn, depending

on the situation)

I roll out the twin dice and THEN!

I MUST play the variation that occurs, IE,

Let's say it is beginning of year 1940,

In the Campaign Game,

And the chart-result says:

"UK must send at least 3 surface vessels

To within 3 hexes of invasion site,

In the event that GErmany invades NOrway."

So.

NOW, I have to figure out the best way

To accomplish that, WITHOUT

Unduly unhinging UK's over-all strategy.

This chart-result MUST be obeyed! :eek:

[... various penalties for NOT obeying,

also based on dice rolls, such as:

"Shut down SC immediately! Go to the wife

and offer to play a game of Parcheesi!"]

Etc, etc.

Some for each year, and certain occasions.

Makes for... MIGHTY interesting "hotseat"

Gameplay, I can tell you!