Canuck_para Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by Carl Von Mannerheim: Good points well made. SuperTed, i a pbem game i think you should be able to declare war on 1 country, not a whole alliance, if historically accurate, for instance, if i want to declare war on JUST romania in 1939, the british player should not be able to send troops there? Good idea?? :confused: Can't you do this now? It would not be possible once a country has joined an alliance to declare war only on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Good piont, after all thats the reason we allied with russia! (no debate please) . But still in some cases u should be able to just declare war on 1 country, of course other countries can declare war on you then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperTed Posted July 10, 2002 Author Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by Aloid: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by SuperTed: Great stuff, guys! <snip> ... within the game engine. <snip>...Need said "game engine" to know what is still gamey, and what Hubert has tweeked to counter it. Don't ya know! Shouldn't the diplomatic hit come in the form of other Neutrals siding with your enemy? I still say DOW and invasion should happen any time, unless the tweeks are to weak. Aloid</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperTed Posted July 10, 2002 Author Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by Carl Von Mannerheim: Good piont, after all thats the reason we allied with russia! (no debate please) . But still in some cases u should be able to just declare war on 1 country, of course other countries can declare war on you then....CVM, Actually, in every case a player declares war on one country. Just assume the declaration is followed by the counter-declarations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 And in a game with the AI it should be this wat, but in a game with a human opponent it should have to actually be said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperTed Posted July 10, 2002 Author Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by Carl Von Mannerheim: And in a game with the AI it should be this wat, but in a game with a human opponent it should have to actually be said.CVM, Do you have an example from WWII when a DoW on an active participant did not automatically result in the above "friends and enemies" formula? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Finland Declares war on USSR, although britain declared war, the only attack made by them was 1 airraid made by 3 bombers. Something that wouldnt show up in this game. And to the best of my knowledge, the US never declared war on finland. I know you guys r sick of 'Finland' but i had to make a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperTed Posted July 10, 2002 Author Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by Carl Von Mannerheim: Finland Declares war on USSR, although britain declared war, the only attack made by them was 1 airraid made by 3 bombers. Something that wouldnt show up in this game. And to the best of my knowledge, the US never declared war on finland. I know you guys r sick of 'Finland' but i had to make a point.CVM, I knew Finland was coming. I could feel it. Anyway, Finland cannot declare war on anybody, so it seems to be a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Cant declare war? Maybe there is a miscommuication but everytime i launch barbarossa i get a message that says that finland has declared war on USSR. Or are we talkin bout 2 different things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloid Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by SuperTed: All of these ideas will be better addressed when a few games have been played. I am hoping to get the ball rolling so players are thinking about these things when they start playing with real bullets. The tweaks Hubert has made are very helpful indeed. However, as is the case with any game, there will be holes that players may want to plug. Yes, I know SuperTed... Heh! Just giving ya the 'ol yank of the chain! So, you're not playtesting... a good sign! Aloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloid Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 <snip> ... I know you guys r sick of 'Finland' but i had to make a point.[/QB]As with the end of any conversation with CVM, you've come to the "Finish"! Aloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 DOW at end of turn may be a solution to the Italy problem, but a pain for everything else. Eg, German DOW against Norway may permit the British to reinforce prior to a surprise attack - not good. And no surprise Barbarossa, at all? Again, not good. Until changes are made to make Italy and Russia active neutrals in the game, the default setups should somehow ensure Italian and Russian units are in decent positions, entrenched where appropriate, and able to absorb a surprise attack. Hubert has already addressed the gamey strategies (right?), so that may be sufficient. I'm also assuming any aggressive action by Britain to attack Italy will significantly delay US entry, so that should be a very risky strategy. I'd rather let this work itself out rather than have some house rule for building sacrifice units if you choose to violate some other house rule. Ugh! I will suggest axis DOW against US should not be allowed; a German cross-Atlantic seaborne invasion was/is completely unrealistic and any DOW to simply bring the US in early would be stupid. The US will enter the game with a DOW, and that should be sufficient whenever it happens. If Germany wants to try an invasion AFTER the US entry, go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 As my name implies its just a coincidence i mention Finland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperTed Posted July 10, 2002 Author Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by Carl Von Mannerheim: Cant declare war? Maybe there is a miscommuication but everytime i launch barbarossa i get a message that says that finland has declared war on USSR. Or are we talkin bout 2 different things?CVM, A few posts up, you said: "But still in some cases u should be able to just declare war on 1 country, of course other countries can declare war on you then....(sic)" I assumed you meant a player could declare war on one nation without dragging that nation's allies into the conflict. Is my assumption incorrect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Yes you were correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compassion Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by Carl Von Mannerheim: Cant declare war? Maybe there is a miscommuication but everytime i launch barbarossa i get a message that says that finland has declared war on USSR. Or are we talkin bout 2 different things?The end result is that Finland goes Axis. I think that Hubert has spiced the game up a bit by using some variation of "CountryX Joins the Axis" type messages. The Yugoslavia joining the Allies message is exciting and evocative, but at the end of the day, the game found that the conditions for Yugoslavia to go Allied had been met and it was changed from a Neutral. Same with teh Finland neutrality change, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperTed Posted July 10, 2002 Author Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by Bill Macon: ...Ugh!...Bill, Point well taken. I agree that there are some cumbersome ideas, but I am just throwing out some potential issues for consideration. Many players will prefer to play SC as it is, without the headache of having extra rules applied. However, I am sure there are others who would like to try some different approaches and have some house rules in place to assure they and their opponents are on the same page. Also, these are issues that should probably be addressed before a ladder is established. I would sure hate to see a ladder turn into "the gamiest player wins" situation. I believe it would be a first in the history of ladder play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 these are issues that should probably be addressed before a ladder is established Very true, at least for the initial release version. What are Hubert's ideas about releasing patches later with more game options based on player feedback? Ideally, there could be numerous options to choose from, with the most reasonable ones (historical?) assigned as game defaults which could be used for tournament play. If you haven't noticed, my inclination is to have things hardwired into the game and then let hell fly. If something's not accurate, or realistic, or historical (where have we heard that before?), then tweak the game code or scenario setups to make it right. I've had mixed experiences with subjective rules and prefer not to deal with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperTed Posted July 10, 2002 Author Share Posted July 10, 2002 Bill, Hubert has said he is willing to consider patches and upgrades in the form of SC2. Beyond that, I don't know what jis specific plans are. At this point, he may not either. I agree that it is less trouble to avoid house rules and that is the way I prefer to play. However, I am guessing, based on the idea's I've seen, there are a lot of people that would like to tinker with the game by trying different rule sets. I think it would nice to have the rules out there, giving players the option of using all, some, or none of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorski Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 Gorski, out of curiosity, who seemed to be winning your games, Axis or Allied? It's hard to tell, tactics are still evolving. The demo ends before the Germans can lose, and sometimes before England can be conquered. We played a couple games with France surrendering on turn 1 and German DoW Russia turn 1. Germany can't win in this scenario, but it's interesting. Gorski [ July 10, 2002, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: gorski ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloid Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 Originally posted by gorski: We played a couple games with France surrendering on turn 1 and German DoW Russia turn 1. Germany can't win in this scenario, but it's interesting. GorskiHey Gorski... twas not me... could be if you want to... Aloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norse Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 Excellent idea on #1 SuperTed, but your suggestions #2, #3 and #4 seems to be overly complicating things. Most minor countries cannot sink the corp anyway, and it would force the major powers to put their fleets at risk in order to sink it. Like someone stated above, #1 would adress Italy, yet still Barbarossa was a complete suprise attack. So I suggest the following, #1: Declaration of war against any major power must come at the very end of the player turn. This rule does not apply to Russland. There, I think that should do it. :cool: ~Norse~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorski Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 I guess I have Aloid mixed up with someone else. Thought Aloid was riczet's handle on the SC board. Gorski oops, it's aesop [ July 10, 2002, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: gorski ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorski Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 Aloid, if you want a game, email me at gorski35@msn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 For some reason declaring war at the end of your turn(excluding russia) to me seems to negate the main advantage in any suprise attck. How bout withthe email you send a text message saying "x country has broken off relations with country x. Thereby informing your opponent of your hostile intentions. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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