SeaWolf_48 Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 I don't know if this has been brought up before, but the Deplomacy in SC needs some tweeking. It seems to me that Hilter approached Spain personally to convince Franco to join the Axis powers. Franco wanted planes, tanks, and food and was afraid that England would not fall and later attack Spain with their navy. The Spainards were sick of war but wanted parts of North Africa and France. Hilter said it was a matter of time before England fell. He told his advissors later that he would rather have his teeth pulled out than to meet with Franco again. Germany wanted to attack Gibraltar thru Spain. If Cairo would have fallen, or London captured Spain might have joined the Axis. Also von Ribbentrop traveled several times to Turkey trying to convince them to join the Axis. They had fought with Germany in WW1 against the allies, and were sympothetic toward the Germans. Germany also said that they would give them the Greek Islands if they joined, very tempting for Turkey. Turkey was affraid of Russia, but if Moscow, Lennengrad, and or Stalingrad had fallen I think they would have joined the Axis. Also if Cairo had fallen they would have been more closely allied to the Germans Right now only the traditional Axis Minors join Germany. I've been told over and over again by this forum tha SC is a game of WHAT IFS! I think that if certain conditions are meet, Germany could spend MPP's to influence Spain or Turkey (and Sweden) to join the axis powers. The only way to get their support now is if the Allies attack the Neutral countries. What say ye.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDG Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 I believe Spain joins the axis if England is invaded and a city is taken, maybe London. Not sure on Turkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paqman Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 SeaWolf_48 I am still very new to SC, so please take my comments with this in mind. I agree with what you are saying, however from the game's perspective, it would seem to me like this would give the Axis an even greater advantage than they already have. For example, if Turkey becomes part of the Axis when Egypt falls, this would pretty much seal the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka of Carthage Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Spain joins if England is invaded (ie London captured?). I don't know what the conditions are for Turkey, never had them join the Axis yet. Sweden, from the economy research I am doing, seems to have been a close economic partner to Germany. Giving the Germans the Swedish mines (as one of the custom mods do), seems to be the best way of reflecting this, since as you are unable to enter Sweden, the only way to protect them is by taking Norway. As someone will point out, even with the reduced mine potential, it would be better to invade Sweden to get thier MPP's along with the plunder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konstantin V. Kotelnikov Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Spain will join if you take London early enough in the game. One time the joined me and it set russia right off and they started jumping in readiness. From the manual, I think I read that Turkey may join the axis if the balkans are axis and Yugo and Greece are conquered. If have seen the spanish option, but not the Turkish. And these only seem to happen early in the game, 1940 and such. Conquering England late, 1944 and on, didn't seem to have any effect on spain. Now if we could only have the mighty armies of Luxemburg join the axis! Later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Konstantin has it right on Turkey. I've had it join with the Balkans and Iraq Axis; by then you don't really need it's help. Spain joins the Axis if London has fallen, though not right away. Historically, hitler sent Admiral Canaris, an old friend of Franco's, to pave the way for him. Canaris, who played both sides though the British never trusted him, talked Franco into remaining neutral. Hitler offered Spain little except control of Gibraltar and wanted one of the Canary Islands for a naval base. Canaris had already informed Franco that Germany was pulling it's units east and would not attack him under any circumstances. Hitler was also trying to get Petain to join the Axis, which was why he didn't offer any French territory to Spain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Spain will join even if you don't control any cities in England - but you do need to have a sucessful sealion in progress (ie landed units and hold some kind of majority, unsure what type) Turkey will join (I never seen this but was told by Terif) if you control Grease, London, and the Balkins freely join the axis. There is a write up in the 1.06v notes that gives some detail to this. Also note any daplomicy (sp) in SC has some random number generated so they still might not join if you meet the above conditions and get a poor 'dice roll'. hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 It might be just be but if you succeed in invading england during a sea lion operation and/or capture London, Spain is pretty much useless besides for the MPPs. Once england is gone, the US can be taken pretty easily or atleast kept very limited in it's movements while you finish off Russia. Having Turkey on the other hand would be great for fighting the Russins, you could come in totally behind them and hopefully seize the oil fields that drive thier economy, or at least tie up a lot of unit's while the German's drive in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 I failed in my attemt's to get Spain to join in, despite taking London and having a fair shot of defeating england all together. Now i am being trounced by the red army I need a good strategy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blissful_ignorance Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 I never succeeded in an early sealion, so i almost always tried to finish off russia and keep the allies at Bay. Of course they often tried to invade France (or Spain if i already conquered it) but normally you can keep the AI at bay. After taking russia i normally take turkey and iraq as well. Too many troops to little targets After that you normally get about 700-900 MPP depends on how much of the cake Italy gets. That is more than sufficent to crush the UK, Canada and the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wachtmeister Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Turkey may, but is not sure to, join Axis, under the following circumstances: 1. Greece conquered by Italy as soon as possible after France falls. 2. Early Sea Lion, and conquest of London, so that Spain Joins Axis. 3. Good Axis relations with the Balkan States - no Axis attacks on the Balkans, inculding Yugoslavia. If Turkey does join Axis, The USSR prepares for war almost immediately. An example of the outcome of Turkey joining Axis is outlined below from a previous post. posted November 24, 2002 12:45 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ran the "formula" one more time and both Spain AND Turkey joined the Axis when London fell. The entry of Turkey was indeed decisive as expected, especially with the Spanish Army also on board. At expert level w/ experience bonus +1, the entry of Tukey was "lights out" for the USSR by mid '43. Game ended [uSA taken] by late '44, even though I never got any [German]jets. This outcome was against the AI. I have never seen Turkey join the Axis in a multi-player game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veki Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 I already said before hundred times and I must say again. Hubert, we definitely need more options and events in diplomacy. I saw once when Spain joins Axis but never when Turkey joins Axis. Lots of minors should have more options like for instance: Sweden may join Axis or Allies, Yugoslavia may join Axis, Vichy France may join Axis, Vichy France may be deactivate by Allies, Greece may join Axis or Allies, Turkey may join Allies, Low countries may join Axis or Allies etc (all of this without declaration of war from major power, of course). Too bad because this is not in SC. I am absolutely sure that SC will be much more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 If Mussolini hadn't ruined things, diplomatically, with his ill-advised Greek invasion (actually, his generals advised him not to), there was a very good chance that both Greece and Yugoslavia would have signed Bulgaria type agreements with Germany: in other words, joining in the Axis sphere without being committed to send troops to Russia. The ruling families of Greece and Yugoslavia, having been related, tended to move in the same direction. Also, it was well known that Mussolini had said since the '20s that they were part of his Italian Empire vision. During the war Germany actually managed some cooperation from local groups, the usual condition being that Italian troops and administrators be excluded from their area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka of Carthage Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Konstatin Isn't that Luxembourgh that the Axis step on during the march to France? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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