Combat Mission: Total War

[Josh Coady]

I dont know if anyone has suggested this before, but I would love to see the "Total War" series concept applied to WWII.

For those of you who are not familiar with the series, it would be like two games in one. You would start at the strategic level (think Axis & Allies) and doing those sorts of things (purchasing units, gathering intelligence, etc.). But, when you decided to attack, you would have the option to resolve the attack at the tactical level (think scenario).

This would give CM a very rich and deep campaign game. Thoughts?

-Josh

[Sergei]

There's problems, though. Both the tactical and strategic sections of TW are lite compared to CM, for an obvious reason - if every battle required as much attention as CM does, the campaign would never be finished. So you will have to dumb it down and probably make it real time.

And would there really be any sense to have strategic and tactical levels only? You're missing operational, which is very important in WW2 - actually, you can't portray 1900's warfare strictly in the TW style, or the results will be ridiculous (Poland is taken over by one battalion?) or unplayable (who wants to control 250,000 men in a CM battle?). A better working concept is that seen in Close Combat IV and V.

[roqf77]

true but his general point is sound. maybe a campaign by campaign section. split bigger battles into smaller ones. but your i agree close combat 4 and 5 were and still are great games.

[Josh Coady]

Total War was just a discussion starter--there would be a lot to flesh out to get a working model, but the concept is intriguing.

It might work to have a campaign that is like an operation in that your forces retain their values after each battle, but different in that that battles take place on different maps and the series of battles that make up the campaign could span multiple years.

It would be nice to see your HQ move up through the ranks, see you green troops become veteran after a certain amount of experience, etc. The idea would be to build a personal attachment to your troops. This should give second thoughts about sending troops for a 200m run over open terrain under enemy fire in a futile effort to win a battle.

If a unit breaks during a battle there should be a chance that the unit would not be available for the next battle. Or, if a squad takes heavy casualties, it would start the next battle as a half squad.

Another interesting twist would be units captured in one battle and a rescue operation in the next.

There would also need to be some way to provide replacements, but those replacements would usually start out green.

Think about playing a "Band of Brothers" campaign.

-Josh

[roqf77]

that is actualy like the close combat games

[Zalgiris 1410]

Firstly, regarding the Total War concept (though I am not familiar with the series) I fully agree with Sergei to the extent that games altinating between strategic to tactical levels often seem trite.

IMO it is just too great a leap to adequitely do as a game without either or both levels falling short in various ways, usually too much.

Strategic to operational at the big end and over time fine, but that's not what CM is about.

Operational to tactical for battles and campaigns of limited to some duration fair enough also, and more what I like rather than shoot'em up arcade games.

A fair example of what I mean was the Talonsoft Eastfront series, although it was a platoon sized turn based you go I go game. In it you progressed in rank as an officer gaining command responsibilities while your surviving troops increasing in experience and having equipment inprovements over time. Thinking about it, there was no real operational level as you were just assigned missions but it kinda felt operational looking at the greater area map while pursuing a career, to my mind at least any way!

Secondly, Roqf77 is right in saying that some of Josh Coady's suggestions sound a bit like Close Combat and I think that for CMx2 there are quite a lot of aspects that should be incorporated. Not that it is appropriate for me to say really, excuse me please! But I miss the personalised stats it has especially the light wounds concept which would work great in CMx2. Thus getting some blood and guts in to it like having experienced, crack or fanatical troops continue effectively enough in battles and going AWOL from the medics to rejoin their comerades! Have determination and morale factored in but personalised. This way having individualised medals awarded and acting and full promotions etc.

Nevermind all that CM is the game that I was looking for and enjoy for all its tactical excellence. I just wish for the absolutely bloody brilliant! Anyway I think that expanding the game to an operational level is the most that should be aimed for but not let that get out of hand, sorry Josh Coady. However, I do agree with you in that it would be fantastic to be able to fight a more looser campaigne style of CM game. That might also increase the randomness and thereby the playability. (I hate badly positioned set up zones.)

An operational level could serve as a means for chance and choice to come into effect to a much greater extent. At that level have an area map or campaigne map so the attacker or defender can examine it enough to choose where to set up or fight. This would solve a lot of poor sights of battle zones etc. Further options could also be included such as choosing or having attached units assigned to your command or interchanged etc. Same goes for equipment and hardware. That I hope is really well illustraited by having to decide if you as the commander would like to receive this or that or another actual unit or force mix but not another. Think Kampfgroup or Task Force or of such and such numbered Company or Battalion etc. That could work, having real and actual numbered units would be great, I know that some of the designers name the units that are actually meant to be represented in battle, but you don't see that in the game.

All the same, it has to work well and that is what CM does at the medium scale tactical level and the best I've come across so far, but one can dream on mate! Hey.

[ July 08, 2005, 12:59 AM: Message edited by: Zalgiris 1410 ]

[Der Kuenstler]

I love Total War and Combat Mission - if they combined them I'd never leave the house again - that would be one cool game.