What is your best Axis strategy?

[Norse]

Under the same topic, should Germany or Italy take the capitals?? Do you think Germany and Italy should share the enemy capitals and MPP's between them? IMO, Germany should take ALL the capitals, she can then easily get over 400MPP's even without the minor axis nations joining her, which would tip the scale to 500MPP's or more. If Germany keeps the preassure to maximum like this, declaring war on as many as possible, then IMO Germany stands the best chance at winning this war (we'll haveto see when the full game comes out on how this fares).

What I do (USSR stance=neutral), is to send off a HQ, a tank division, 2 corps, a cruiser and an army to invade the Baltic states right away. On turn 1 the Lower Countries fall after the 3 fighter units attack, and an army clears out the resistance. NEVER even bother with the Maginot line, the French units there will only hold the line, and only retreats when Paris gets in danger. They don't invade Germany, so just standing clear of them prevents them from hitting your units. A corps or two is enough to defend south-Germany from an early French invasion (which won't go far before he retreats anyway).

After the HQ defeats the Baltic States, then I send it down to attack Yoguslavia, and after that I hit Greece, and then I hit Turkey (sadly this is where the demo runs out, but I can see how this army could move thru Turkey and get access to Russian Caucasus and the oil in the middle east, maybe hitting Irak.

After France falls, I send the German navy as close to the coast as possible, to get to western-France. There I build a battleship and a carrier, and prepare to invade USA. If I had more time in the demo then I would hit Spain as well, when Gibraltar falls, then the mediterranian front will become an axis stronghold so its well worth it.

Well, when the minor axis joins now (or they are attacked and taken anyway), USA have fallen :cool: , and Germany have taken all the capitals, then I belive Axis victory is secured. Germany has by now an ENORMOUS productional might.

Of course this kind of agressive strategy would be terribly difficult against a human player, but what wouldn't

What do you guys think? What do you do with the Germans?

-Norse-

[Silvercloud]

In my most recent game I took out france the way you did and then followed through on vichy france (well, the french part anyway) and also took out spain. This all with the germans, since the italians really aren't worth s***, except for their boats (which if deployed correctly can clear the meditterenean of hostile boats allowing for an invasion of africa by italy, though you need more units - which italy doesnt get becuz of too low mpp)

My MPP for the last turn were 368... I also took switzerland just for the hell of it. I tried to take out africa but failed cuz no air support

You know of a way to strengthen armies at all, except for xperience?

[waltero]

playing the computer you can get creative, but agianst a human player you are forced to play more of a real game!

You will find yourself getting in alot of trouble

when you have a human opponent. If you try to do the things you are use to doing agianst the AI,

Cant see the axis winning the game with a good allied player.

Who does the game favor?

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

Sadly, most games of ww2 on the stategic level favor the allies,i guess to make people 'feel' good. I hope this game will be a more realistic game that gives each side thei correct chances of winning

[dasreich]

The key to any axis victory is speed. Getting lots of MPP's fast at the expense of the allies is a must. Hitting unimportant targets or waiting for the "right time" to attack will let attrition set in. Thats what happened to the Axis in real life. I try to take the low countries first turn and France by the third turn. If I dont succeed in a quick knock-out of mainland europe, England usually starts reinforcing France, which means I have to spend more MPP's just to dominate western europe. Im geussing that in the real game, if the axis havent taken out England and/or Russia, or come close to it by the time the USA comes in, then they will be in serious trouble, especially against a human. The Allies always had the production and manpower advantage over the axis. It was critical for the axis to exploit their unpreparedness for war. When they failed, they went on the defense and stayed there.

[husky65]

Originally posted by Norse:

What do you guys think? What do you do with the Germans?

Hit Low countries and France, ignore Maginot - meanwhile hit Sweden - 3 x corp, 1 x Army (2 x C + 1 x A amphib at the capital - 1 x C for the mines from Norway), plus a cruiser bombarding can sometimes get you a surrender next turn - if it doesnt, you'll need a HQ + Luftflotte as well to end it.

Spend most of your MPPs on Luftflottes and set them up along the channel coast (after France surrenders), amphib attack UK with massive air support.

Italians attack Vichy (2 x Army plus build a HQ) - It navy sweep western Med clear, build a third army to finish european Vichy France, then amphib armies plus HQ to Africa and finish Vichy off (can send a german corps to get points).

As soon as UK falls start redeploying for Yugos and possible last turn USSR declaration.

You can get Low Contries, Sweden, France, Vichy in the demo before the USA can intervene - I always leave the possibility that USSR may intervene on, as it forces me to deploy troops to cover it - as it will in the full campaign, so its good practice.

[Norse]

I like hitting Vichy France prior to hitting Spain as well, gives much more room to send troops thru.

With Italy, I play around with this move. First I gather its fleet at the tip of the Italian coast, the next turn I move the fleet to stand in a line from Greece to Libya, and send the Italian army towards Egypt. The AI doesn't seem to "think" at this point, because it sends the carrier and a battleship to bombard the inf, without regard to the Italian fleet's position. The next turn I send in the Italian fleet, and both the UK carrier and battleship are sunk. That leaves the UK fleet with 1 battleship left in Egypt, and 1 in Gibraltar.

To take Egypt with the Italians are difficult, but if you let Italy take Yoguslavia and Greece then they should have the MPP's to do it on their own (I don't like giving the Italians any capitals though, still...). Then you can build an Italian HQ and a fighter or bomber unit. Then I move the Italian army to attack the Egyptian Corps from west, and land the HQ right behind it and place the airfleet there as well. I land a secondary army to the east of the Egyptian corps.

However I haven't managed to take it yet... I think Italy just simply must call upon Germany to send a couple fighters down there. The Italian fleet can't bombard the Egyptian Corps which makes it really difficult :eek:

[Norse]

Ouwie! I wrote this answer too slowly as it was a direct reply to Silvercloud's first reply, didn't notice the other replies :eek: Hmm, that happens

I agree, Germany will definately have a really hard time fighting against USSR to the east and UK/USA to the west. Italy is safer down in the medterranian, atleast for awhile. That is why I think Germany must be given all the captured capitals, so Germany can get enough production going to be able to bear the main burden against the allies.

I wonder... how can an alternative strategy place Italy in the front seat, and let Italy be the one that wins the war for the Axis?

Perhaps Italy could be given France, Yoguslavia and Greece, and then get enough MPP's going to be able to quickly take the middleeast, and from there launch a major attack against USSR into the caucasus. There's alot of MPP's to be taken there, and space runs out for the sovjet player pretty quick if his trying to defend it.

Germany will still get the minor allies (and maybe Sweeden, strategy for that is already posted by husky65 )on her side, so Germany would get enough MPP's to take on the building of "Fortress Europe", keeping the UK/USA out of mainland Europe so they're not able to knock the Axis out. In the meantime Italy owns the med and Cacasus. Perhaps Germany could even afford to launch a limited assault against USSR in conjuction with Italy's main thrust down south in the Caucasus, a linkup in Rostov (Germany moves thru south Ukraine after USSR is beaten back by the Italians) would secure even more factories for Germany's effort to keep UK/USA out. Hmm, this would definately put alot of MPP's in the Axis hands, too bad the demo's timeframe isn't long enough to test something like this out fully. Would be interesting to see if it would work. Any ideas?

[Rudel]

I disagree with three of your major premises:

1. The most important goal is taking out England before Russia enters the way. This, in my mind, precludes taking out Sweeden, and most other ventures.

2. Attacking Spain and other future allies seems pointless to me. It pisses off the Russians and the Americans. If you do well, they will join you.

3. Italy needs to gain a few capitals. Obviously, none of us have played past the demo, but there is no doubt that to win, the Axis must use Italy better than in real life. Italy will have to fully commit its armies and its navy. 115 mpp's is simply not enough to sustain a week of major land and naval engagments. The only ventures I would undertake prior to the fall of england would be by the Italians. I would have them take Yugoslavia and Vichy france. The Italian army will be needed to attack Iraq and then hit the Russians on the flank. The Navy will be needed against the US. 115 mpps just doesn't cut it.

[Norse]

Rudel, you have some very valid points. Italy indeed must be able to hold its own in a war that keeps dragging on. But what you are saying expects that USSR, UK, and USA are all at war with Germany and Italy (not an unrealistic scenario lol). The longer the game drags on, the harder it will be for the Axis to win due to attrition and that the allies have more production than the axis. Axis is likely to fail in a long defensive war like this.

Spain: If Spain is hit, sure it will upset the axis minor allies and piss of USA and USSR, BUT!!! If Gibraltar falls into Axis hands, then the mediterranian sea will be shut off for the allies. This means that Italy is safe, and do NOT need alot of MPP's to stay alive. Italy can be used as another minor ally to fill some German ranks. The naval battles against USA might not even happen then.

In the meantime Germany could be given all the capitals, and be a really strong bear, capable of holding UK/USA off while having enough MPP's to overcome the Russians. If Russis falls then, Im sure such a superstrong Germany by now, will be able to fight UK and USA successfully.

But you are right indeed, it would be better to fare off so perfectly in this war that Spain and Turkey enters by free will. Perhaps giving Italy a major part in this war (read my post above on that suggestion) could make this happen, and then Gibraltar falls anyway.

The full game will show us how quickly Spain joins the war. If Spain doesn't join it, then I think hitting it may well be worth the effort (espesically for Italy's sake).

[Wolfe]

The tough part about invading England is that the Soviets will almost always join the fight once London has fallen (if it's set to Random). I've even had them join just by surrounding London. It then will take some turns to finish off Manchester while trying to hold off a rather large push from the East.

I'd rather try to do it the other way around; push into the USSR as early as possible to try to drive deep, seizing mines and cutting off various cities from Moscow to prevent the MPPs from flowing. The Brit player will often try crossing the channel to set up a two-front war, hopefully allowing you to pause the assault into Russia, operate a number of tank and plane units back to destroy his invading force (and essentially remove him from the game for a long time). If that doesn't take too long or waste too many units, you may be able to turn back and finish off the Soviets.

The alternative (waiting until Britain is defeated) either allows the Soviets to launch their own offensive or will likely take so much time that an initial push into the now well-defended USSR will get quickly bogged down, even against the AI.

Any Sealion strategy would have to be finished *very* quick for any reasonable push into Russia to get anywhere.

I think the idea of going up through Turkey is - at best - a diversion. With all those mountains I don't think you can get enough supplies to your troops to make a credible push north. You actually don't have to seize cities and mines to remove their points; cutting them off from a hex path back to Moscow reduces them to half their output.

BTW, taking Spain is a real nightmare! I prefer to just let the Spaniards join the Axis when they're good and ready.

Still, I'll definitely be trying all of these different options (and from both sides), when the game arrives.

- Chris

[husky65]

Originally posted by Wolfe:

The tough part about invading England is that the Soviets will almost always join the fight once London has fallen (if it's set to Random). I've even had them join just by surrounding London. It then will take some turns to finish off Manchester while trying to hold off a rather large push from the East.

The answer is the Luftwaffe (boy, Fat Hermann would have loved to hear that!) - pound London with 8 or so Luftflottes, take it the turn you land troops and then ship in a HQ.

Rebuild your most damaged luftflottes and use the others to pave the way for the advance on Manchester, rebuild as required.

At about this point, Spain will see which way the war is going and sign up for a share of Lebensraum.

Surround, then hit Manchester with every plane you've got, then every Inf, or Tank army that can reach it.

UK will fall, giving you Gib, Malta + Egypt as well, so don't waste troops on them earlier.

Use the points the UK gives you to put in place a reasonable Ostwall with a good leader, move some planes and ship some panzers via Baltic.

You should be in pretty good shape for the Yugo coup and any Soviet treachery against the peace loving 1000 year reich!

[ June 29, 2002, 01:29 AM: Message edited by: husky65 ]

[moosh]

in a recent game i took out France, then moved to sweden, right to the baltic states , then right into Russia, i took Moscow with 4 turns remaining and was pressing towards there new Capital with a mmp income of over 500 and the Red Army was down to collecting 250 ,the Med belonged to Italy's navy and they was loading up from Greece to go take Egypt. i had 3 air fleets in france along with 4 corp and 1 armor. the Finn's took Leningrad with help from German air fleets. it was looking real good for the Germans , Russia would have been toast in a few more turns then i would go take England. Englands navy would have went down with air power clearing the way for my transports to sail unharmed where ever they wanted to.

[Straha]

I hope that later versions of the game will include some limited MMP transfer from neutral Sweden and Vichy to the Axis, to encourage to let them live. At the moment, invading Sweden is almost a must ...

Straha

[waltero]

I found that if you declare war agianst spain(on the first turn), that the allies send everything to uncontrolled france, through brest.

by the time the game ended I had taken france, yugo,greece,baltic,spain,gibralter,and london along with units next to manchester,(enimy only had a 4 factor air in Manchester for def on whole island)whiped out the Britt fleet (three left in med at bottom)no britt left on mainland.

As well as having six german transports with HQ and three Roman transports with HQ into the atlantic

[waltero]

Even while britt is getting invaded thay keep sending units to brest?

I figure if I mess around enough that In the demo I will be able to take out britian!

Easy!!!

[Austrian Strategist]

Originally posted by Carl Von Mannerheim:

Sadly, most games of ww2 on the stategic level favor the allies,i guess to make people 'feel' good. I hope this game will be a more realistic game that gives each side thei correct chances of winning

The correct chance of winning for the Allies was about 66%, give or take a few. The Allies have a better chance of winning, because this is historical. Their superiority in economy/population numbers was enormous.

[ June 29, 2002, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: Austrian Strategist ]

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

In a game that spans 4+years yes, but not in a game where the time is not defined like this

[waltero]

I have played the demo 100 times never tried to invade Britian. First time I tried I did with great success.

I once saw on the bord about a guy who was gloating over is exploits in this demo.

What greater coquest can one do than this?

(other than taking USA GLITCH)

Is this just anouther glitch or is the AI just not that good?

[John DiFool]

Originally posted by Austrian Strategist:

The correct chance of winning for the Allies was about 66%, give or take a few. The Allies have a better chance of winning, because this is historical. Their superiority in economy/population numbers was enormous.

True in a strict sense, but the Germans wasted a

whole bunch of production potential in a Byzantine

bureaucratic system of competing, intrigue-ridden

ministries, only partly resolved (albeit too late)

by Speer in the war's latter years.

A couple of examples will suffice: the Germans had dozens and dozens of plane models in service,while

the Russians concentrated on about 7 proven

designs, which proved more amenable to mass- production. The Germans were literally running out

of tanks in early October '41, despite low-to- moderate losses in Russia up to that point.

John DiFool

[husky65]

Originally posted by Austrian Strategist:

Way higher than 66%, have a look at 'Brute Force' by john ellis, it was all about production and the allies dominated that hands down.

Crude steel production

Axis (best year - 1943)= 41.1 million tons

Allies inc USA (worst year - 1942)= 104.3 million tons

The USSR made 105,251 Tanks and AFVs from 39 - 45

the entire axis made 51845, the USA 88410, UK 27896 and Canada made 5678 (670 more than Italy and Japan combined).

All the statistics are like that.

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

DUDE, that wasnt me....

[Welshwill]

:confused: You will have to excuse my ignorance, I am new to gaming. How do you enable the game, while playing the Axis, so that you are able to invade Spain, Sweden and so on?

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

no prob, judt go to the war map screen, select a country's flag and hit, declare war.

[Welshwill]

Carl Von Mannerheim

Thank You

Welshwill