Defending France

[Mammou]

I am playing my second Allied game and France has fallen

again. In the first game (Normal +0) I saved up a bought

a tank, thinking that at least one heavy unit would make

a difference - it didn't.

In my second (Intermediate +1) I tried getting a leader.

They may be terrible leaders, but they are better than

none. Although the troops I did have lasted longer and

did more damage to the Germans, I was severly outnumbered

and lost at aboout the same point as in the first game.

Should I try the Russian Defense (corps and lots of them),

scarifice the Canadian Army, and/or the RAF?

In the demo I was able to hold France until very close to

the end - in this full version I find that I cannot hold

very long at all.

Cheers,

Mammou

[Niklas.Andersson]

1. Delete the corps in algeria and beirut to get 60MPP

2. Get A HQ as sune as possible. Very importent

3. Transport the Canadian army to help defend French.

4. "Sacrifice" the 2 french crusiers and battleship in bombarmdment of the land/air units -they will be sunk by axis planes but that gives you some extra turns to strenghen your economy and will turn the fighters on the naval units instead of the land defens.

5. Use UK bomber to hit the first line of attackers- if ur lucky the axies choose to build them up insted of move them away =takes away 1 space of attacking possibility

6. Buy a additional french Amry after sum weeks(or corps if MMP is low)

This tactic makes me hold french until july 17 -1940 when I play the -39 Wiess campaing on max diff (100%) and +2 exp to axies

[John DiFool]

Originally posted by Niklas.Andersson:

1. Delete the corps in algeria and beirut to get 60MPP

Didn't Hubert say that doing this (or shuttling

them to the mainland) would speed up Italian

entry?

John DiFool

[Hubert Cater]

This is correct with the patched v1.02

Hubert

[Niklas.Andersson]

Originally posted by Niklas.Andersson (me):

1. Delete the corps in algeria and beirut to get 60MPP

"Didn't Hubert say that doing this (or shuttling

them to the mainland) would speed up Italian

entry?"

Yes but all the max diff games as allies I played (only 3 of them but still) the Axies has declaring war on vichy french =I get back the tropps in algeria and beirut (OBS havent tried this in 1.02)

[winkelried]

I don't hold France, I don't think it is possible.

I try to get a French Tank Corps (they have Heavy Tank Tech + 1) and ship everything possible (Air Fleet!) to the UK and Gibraltar. Put the French fleet in UK harbors and hope that they turn to Free French like the rest. (I like De Gaulle better than Petain anyway ...). The rest is waiting for the USSR to enter war, and then the US ...

In one game i shipped the whole Free French Army to Russia to help them in the defense (Like the Normandie Njemen Air Regiment did in real life). Usually the German navy is no obstacle to the UK big ships to run through the Baltic Sea.

[dasreich]

Holding France is possible. At normal, exp + 0, I get a few corps to defend the Italian front and thats all it takes. Mountain entrenchment is especially useful here. For Germany, you shuttle every allied unit possible to the defense of France and make sure you have one French HQ and one British. For the most part, just retrengthen your forces when attacked, but if an oppurtunity presents itself kill off a German unit or two. This slows them down for a while. Also, move your entire navy off the coast of the low countries. This is useful both for hiting German troops on the coast and providing targets for their fighters. Gamey, I know, but it works. Finally, once USA joins, so when they enter, take everything over to Framce and buy an HQ asap. Hopefully, Paris will still be protected when USSR goes to war. Then the war will dramatically turn in your favor. In a game where I employed that strategy, The Russians were in Berlin in early '43, and the Western Allies were charging down Italy. I payed a heavy price in terms of navy and land forces for the Allies, but the Russians just overwhelmed Germany, since they were wasting all their money on France.

[Sheff]

It is certainly possible to defend france. In fact, I succesfully held all of France. The only city I lost during the game (39' campaign Expert+0) was brussels. The allies won the war in early 43 with france the owner of Germany and Italy, in fact. The key is to move fast to set up a stable front and get yourself a HQ. If you manage that, all that is needed is a war of attrition. Not being afraid to put your neck on the line to destroy weakened German armor and army units is a must. Kinda surprising in my eyes. Who would have thought the froggies were capable of such things?

[Straha]

That's why when I play the Allies I always set the experience for the Axis +1. Even then you may hold on to France, but at least not *always*. If it fails, then it would have been better to have shipped everything to the UK instead - so it's at least a though decision whether one shouldn't do this in the first place.

And I agree, the key is getting a HQ for the French.

Straha

Btw this is all based on the gold demo still ...

[benkarl]

I took Berlin and Rome with the French in 1941 last night with normal, +0 settings. I started by invading the low countries while Germany was busy with Poland and used the plunder for an HQ.

Meanwhile, I had moved the Algerian Corps to Marsilles (sp?) to block the Italians. The Syrian corps along with the alexandrian corps were moved to sicily to land when Italy declared war. I moved the French navy to malta along with the British Egyptian and Gibralter squadrons to destroy the Italian navy when Italy declared war. When the war with Italy started (very quickly), there was a bloody naval battle that wiped out the Italian navy over several turns. I landed on Sicily, but the Germans had put a corps there to prevent me from taking the town. After the naval battle, I turned the Malta air fleet, the British carrier and a battleship loose on the corps and took it out in a couple of turns so that France could occupy Sicily. I then put the brits near the toe of Italy (since you can walk across the straits with units in this game) and used air/battleships to pound anything coming down the toe to retake Sicily. The rest of the Mediterranian navy went to various Italian ports to bombard garrisons and use up their MPPs.

In Europe, the Royal Navy moved quickly to find and destroy the two U-Boats in the N. Atlantic. Then they moved off the coast of the low countries to support France. The Canadian army and corps came across the Atlantic and disembarked to support France.

At this point, France had and HQ and a solid line of units holding the front at Brussles, but only because of the Canadians and stripping Paris of its defenders. There were some turns spent carefully fighting a holding action with limited offensives. Mostly, I held and reinforced units that were getting pounded by the Germans, occasionally rotating one out so another could take its place. That took most of the French MPPs. Sometimes, I was able to draw in German units to hexes where three or four units could pound on it and sometimes an air unit or two could finish it before it was reinforced. The Luftwaffe made all of this very bloody as did the lack of a HQ for the Canadians and some of the French. Still, I was slowly able to pare down the German army in this way.

I got a break when the Rodney (Brit battleship) spotted the German Bock HQ on the north sea coast where two battleships could hit him. I hit him with both ships and carrier based air, but he didn't die. He didn't pull out like I'd hoped either and another effort the next turn killed him. Similarly, Runstead was exposed near the Maginot line and a bold thrust by some of the Maginot armies (with forts held by corps and my HQ) knocked him down and eliminated him over a few turns, though I nearly lost an army several times. I have no idea why the AI didn't pull the HQs out.

By this point, the Brits had put together a 'BEF' of Montgomery's HQ, a Tank unit and an Army which were sent to relieve the beleagured Canadians. (who were often knocked down to 1 to 3 points each round by German attacks.) They landed in Brussles and took the place of the Canadians. Meanwhile, the French had hoarded enough MPPs for a Tank unit. An offensive began.

With the loss of the German HQs and the arrival of the allied tank units, the Panzer armies were doomed. The infantry had gotten slaughtered trying to attack them and it very nearly cost the front, but the tank armies were able to fight them more evenly and knock them down to a size where the infantry armies and air forces could finish them without too severe losses. This broke the front and the Canadians rotated into the Maginot line along with the French Corps that was already there so the French armies and HQ could take the offensive. Once the line began to advance, the Luftwaffe retreated and allied air could finally be brought to bear at full strenght. It was all over at that point. Individual strong points in the cities were pounded and destroyed, French armies raced to Berlin and, after a brief battle, occupied it. Another turn of mopping up and Germany surrendered.

After that, Italy didn't stand a chance. The French and Brits moved south and flooded the peninsula. In April of 1941, as the French were marching into Venice, the Russians declared war on the Axis and the Finns declared war on the allies a turn later. I don't know what was up with that. A few turns later, Rome was occupied by French armies and the beleaguered French and British forces on Sicily were finally relieved.

[winkelried]

I tried this strategy (to put everything into France) and it worked out: In December 41 the Soviets stood in Berlin. I think this is due to the following reason.

A)The AI is poor in finding and exploiting a weak spot in a defense:

A1) More than once I had a division with strength 2 after an attack by two German units. The AI didn't have any Air Fleet in reserve to kill the division. And then reserves (e.g. armor) to exploit the break.

A2) Even when the AI was capable to create a hole it put in just one division and didn't run through (e.g. with an tank group).

As the Germans the AI fusses around ways too long with the Low Countries.

B1) The only target to attack is Brussels. As soon as Brussels falls (usually in the second week) the Netherland's Corps disappears (gamey?).

Manstein's plan (Fall Gelb) relied on just the factor of creating a "Schwergewicht" (Point of Focus?) at an unexpected point (the Ardennes). To do this, he needed to pass through Belgium and the Netherlands, as the Maginot Line was a major obstacle for the direct way. The Allied expected a new version of WWI's "von Schlieffen Plan" and tried to come to help to Belgium. The Germans hit them where they were the weakest and most exposed, at the angle point, where their front turned.

When I run the "Fall Weiss" scenario against myself (maybe I'am a bit schizo ...) then the Allies don't stand a chance, because of my concentration of forces:

1) Get Brussels.

2) Open a hole in the Allied front (Ardennes ...)

3) Cut off the Allies from their supplies with the Tank Corps (Run to the Atlantic, occupy Lorraine ...)

4) Drive to Paris, have breakfast at Fouquet's.

[jacob lundgren]

log time reader first time poster.

i decided to never try to hold france that way but it would be fun only once.

anyways i played a game as the axis the 39 scenario and actualy had some good luck going. (a previus attemp an hour before had all the bad luck you could imagine like having 5 points in a tech and never getting it many turns later)

anyways i took paris and finished my turn. much to my surprise the next turn france was still alive. i thought france ALWAYS dies when paris is lost?

[winkelried]

Originally posted by jacob lundgren:

much to my surprise the next turn france was still alive. i thought france ALWAYS dies when paris is lost?

The same can happen to you when you invade Poland. As long as the field army still has some strength the country will not surrender.